Okay. I am fed up.

[Rachael Williams]

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/showmedia.php?mediaID=20448

Media is visible but is not linked to anything

[Philip Roy]

OK, so this is interesting...when I go to 

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/showmedia.php?mediaID=19458

An image is displayed. I looked at the source code and that showed me where the image is located....clicking on it will bring up the image on the server...

https://lincolncemetery.org/soalsearch/photos/%20A.%20Dennee%20Bibb.jpg

I had to put that as code, so you can copy and paste it...the forum was wanting to display the image. Try coping that URL into a browser and you'll get the image.

I then go to one where the image isn't being displayed...

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/showmedia.php?mediaID=19492

I find the link to the image....

https://lincolncemetery.org/soalsearch/photos/ Amanda Carney Appleberry(1).jpg

And that gives me an error (copy and paste that into a browser). To me that suggests that you didn't upload all the media to the server outside of TNG? Can you check that the image actually exists on the server? It looks like it doesn't.

As a side note...you won't want to hear this one...but I note all your image names start with a space it seems? And also contain spaces and punctuation? It's not great web practice to do that...but that is WAY too big an issue to deal with at this time. I would have named those files as "A.Dennee.Bibb.jpg" and "Amanda.Carney.Appleberry1.jpg"...but again, just ignore that at the moment as it's way too much work.

 

[Rachael Williams]

14 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

Can you give us a specific link to an image that doesn't show?

Bear with me, trying to be more concise... I can get images into TNG. But, the images are not linked to anything.

Take

Bezeler Arrington

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/getperson.php?personID=I387&tree=soalsearch#cite11

Here is his Burial Record Card:

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/showmedia.php?mediaID=19848

There is no connection between the image of the burial record card and Bezeler Arrington,  nor his Burial Event. Nor does the image appear to be connected to any source, citation, or repository as far as I am able to tell.

[Philip Roy]

7 minutes ago, Rachael Williams said:

I can get images into TNG. But, the images are not linked to anything

There's the issue Rachel...I have no idea what that means? You say you can get images into TNG...how? What does that means? We're trying to take you through step by step, but that comment is confusing. So again...in the post before this, you have clearly imported details from the GEDCOM...but the image associated with the second example isn't physically sitting on your server. That means you have images missing on the server. The image might be mentioned now in TNG...but it's not there....because it's not been uploaded.

Again...we're not asking you to use TNG to upload images. We're asking you to do that before you do the GEDCOM import.

[Rachael Williams]

@Philip Roy Our responses seem to be coming in tandem. Here is an example of what I mean...

14 minutes ago, Rachael Williams said:

Bear with me, trying to be more concise... I can get images into TNG. But, the images are not linked to anything.

Take

Bezeler Arrington

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/getperson.php?personID=I387&tree=soalsearch#cite11

Here is his Burial Record Card:

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/showmedia.php?mediaID=19848

There is no connection between the image of the burial record card and Bezeler Arrington,  nor his Burial Event. Nor does the image appear to be connected to any source, citation, or repository as far as I am able to tell.

The image for Amanda Carney Appleberry, does not exist because I assumed that the gedcom linked to the Amanda Carney Appleberry.jpg not the Amanda Carney Appleberry(1).jpg and deleted the duplicate rather then the original from the server. I can probably fix those issues by re-uploading the media files. However, the bigger problem of the media not being linked as in the Bezeler Arrington example above is what is causing me the most confusion.

[Philip Roy]

Is that image linked to the person in your Genealogy program? FTM or whatever it is called? If it isn't then TNG won't know it's there either.

In terms of images missing (as you mention)...my private site is managed entirely by me uploading a GEDCOM file from Reunion (it's a program for Mac computers only). And here's my list of things I do in that process...(and yes, I know there are mods that could help, but I try to stay mod free)....

* Set drop-down collection to "Photos"  !!!! IMPORTANT !!!!
* Click Search
* Go through process of "Select All" and delete all photo media listed


Import/Export
--
* Choose file GEDCOM file from server folder

* Tick - Accept data for all new Custom Event Types 

* Import into - Family Treee
* Replace all current data
* Tick
-- Upper case all surnames
-- Import media links
-- Import latitude / longitude data if present

* Once done, go and generate thumbnails

Why did I list that? I'm trying to show that when I import the GEDCOM file, one of the things I do before hand is delete all links to photos and allow the GEDCOM to be the document that manages all links to images...and then those links get imported into TNG and updated as part of the import process. I still don't see what looks like images (in TNG admin) though until I generate the thumbnails again.

I'm sure there are probably easier ways...but this way works every time. That may not work for you unless the GEDCOM file contains everything that you are dealing with in FTM.

[theKiwi]

1 hour ago, Rachael Williams said:

@theKiwi Okay, there appear to be no duplicates. But, the vast majority of the media is linked to nothing.

Can you make a .zip copy of the GEDCOM file and eMail it to rogerkiwi@aol.com and I'll take a look and see if I can figure out why media are being imported from the GEDCOM file, but apparently not linked to anything/anybody.

Also, you could now set your Max Search Results back to the default 50 or maybe 100 so the server isn't trying to send, and the browser isn't trying to load a huge long page.

Roger

[theKiwi]

26 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

* Set drop-down collection to "Photos" !!!! IMPORTANT !!!! * Click Search * Go through process of "Select All" and delete all photo media listed

This is not necessary as long as nothing has changed in your TNG setup and your Reunion setup. TNG can quite safely skip over any media that it already has, and add what is new each time - this is what I've done for years with my Reunion and TNG setup.

Roger

[Rachael Williams]

19 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

Is that image linked to the person in your Genealogy program? FTM or whatever it is called? If it isn't then TNG won't know it's there either.

@Philip Roy

Thank You! When I import my gedcom into RootsMagic8 the images are linked appropriately. When I import the same gedcom to GRAMPS the images are also linked appropriately. It is only in TNG that there are no links. I have also uploaded to MyHeritage without any loss of media. I am not at all sure what the issue is here, the only reason I did not generate thumbnails was because I was trying to follow the exact instructions you gave on how to delete media files and upload a new gedcom without doing anything at all extra that could have been causing problems... I will send you the gedcom! I really appreciate your help!

@fluffy82 If you have any pointers on your import process from FTM, they would be very much appreciated. You have clearly figured out how to make this work with your tree and FTM. maybe something could be gleaned by knowing your process.

 

[Philip Roy]

3 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

This is not necessary as long as nothing has changed in your TNG setup and your Reunion setup.

It has...it's a very small site that I consider a work in progress...and I constantly change things, improve a filename or two here and there....so it's just easier to always to do that, as it doesn't take that much more time. I don't want to install the Gedcom import purge mod....but I do wish I didn't have to do 50 images at a time...unless I'm missing something, you can't list 100 or 200 (only in the admin area) photos to then delete like some systems let you?

So it's just habit...and a good one that works for me.

[Philip Roy]

It's not me that you are sending it to...there's two people helping you at the moment...but I am about to clock off for the day (we take it in shifts helping you...I'm joking! 😂)

I still think that you think that TNG uploads images as part of the Gedcom import process just by the way you are wording things above....it doesn't...that's why I kept asking if the file was on the server. @theKiwi is going to help further by taking a specific look at the GEDCOM export itself and seeing if there is an issue with either how things are on your PC or is the reference to the media file is missing.

[Rachael Williams]

@Philip Roy @theKiwi

Thanks to you both! I have apparently become gedcom delirious. At any rate.. the email is sent. And I deeply appreciate all of the help I can get!

[theKiwi]

I haven't checked it all yet, but looking at this page

https://lincolncemetery.org/soal/browsemedia.php

the first item that is not linked to anyone is "Anna McDuffie Hadley". That appears in the GEDCOM file as shown here

Quote

0 @M966@ OBJE
1 FILE C:\Users\Rachael\Documents\Family Tree Maker\LincolnCemetery Media\ Anna McDuffie Hadley.jpg
1 FORM JPG
1 TITL  Anna McDuffie Hadley
1 NOTE Date:18 Oct 1934
 

But there is no reference to @M966@ in the GEDCOM file at all - that's why it imports, but is not linked to anyone. The same applies to the next media item apparently unlinked on the above page. It is listed in the GEDCOM file, but the reference to M2024 is not anywhere else in the GEDCOM file.

0 @M2024@ OBJE
1 FILE C:\Users\Rachael\Documents\Family Tree Maker\LincolnCemetery Media\ Baker White Sr..jpg
1 FORM JPG
1 TITL  Baker White Sr.
1 NOTE Date:25 Jan 1892

So - your first step to sorting this out is to go through your FTM file and try and figure out why items are getting listed in the GEDCOM file, but not linked to anyone.

Possibly a problem with the GEDCOM Converter?

Can you eMail me a zipped copy of the GEDCOM file as it comes out of FTM directly before munging it with the GEDCOM Converter?

Roger

[theKiwi]

28 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

but I do wish I didn't have to do 50 images at a time...unless I'm missing something, you can't list 100 or 200 (only in the admin area) photos to then delete like some systems let you?

Change the value of Max Search Results in TNG Admin ------> Setup ------> General Settings ------> Miscellaneous

Roger

[Philip Roy]

30 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

Change the value of Max Search Results in TNG Admin ------> Setup ------> General Settings ------> Miscellaneous

Roger

Does that impact users also? In Joomla (for example) it’s just a drop down you can choose and the page reloads. Don’t want to change it if it impacts the front end also.

[theKiwi]

6 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

Does that impact users also? In Joomla (for example) it’s just a drop down you can choose and the page reloads. Don’t want to change it if it impacts the front end also.

Yes it does - but you can change it back after you've done deleting the media.

Roger

[Philip Roy]

18 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

Yes it does - but you can change it back after you've done deleting the media.

Roger

Thanks, I’ll probably just stick with how it is rather than changing backwards and forwards.

[fluffy82]

12 hours ago, Rachael Williams said:

If you have any pointers on your import process from FTM, they would be very much appreciated. You have clearly figured out how to make this work with your tree and FTM. maybe something could be gleaned by knowing your process.

I don't think I do anything special, but it's true that if you don't know this procedure it might seem odd.

I created several collections in TNG (portraits, deaths, baptisms, heraldry, buildings, maps,....). As you know, each collection has its folder. On my harddrive, within FTM, these files are also stored in folders with the identical name as the "collections" in TNG. When importing a gedcom, all I have to do is copy my folders from FTM into TNG, ignore or overwrite doubles, and all files are automatically in the right collection.

So, the trick is not to keep all your files in the standard FTM media-folder, but already have them in the correct folders.

 

There are some issues as FTM allows you to attach an image to a citation, but TNG doesn't do that. TNG attaches the media to the source, not the citation. Which can give weird results which ones are shown where and when. I chose to not show source/citation related media, as that would mean the same image might be duplicated 15 times on one page. So what I do in FTM, is not only attach the image to the citation (that means it will be shown in TNG at the bottom in the sources section), but also attach an image to any event I want it to be visible in TNG. For example, I have a marriage certificate. This citation is added to the names of both spouses, their parents, their birth dates and all other information that's in the certificate. I attach a copy of the certificate to the citation. Within FTM, the image is visible with every fact the citation is linked to. Not in TNG (by my choice). I want the marriage certificate to be visible only with the actual marriage fact, while retaining the citations for all other facts. So I attach the media file in FTM also to that marriage fact (which, in FTM, then shows two media in stead of one).

I hope I didn't confuse you even more... Don't hesitate to tell me if it's not clear or if you have questions!

[jackindy]

Rachael,

Maybe some experiences/commiseration from another newbie might be helpful. Like you, I am a newbie, I use FTM, and I use Template 19. I will follow here to see how you overcome!

In FTM, all media is in one folder with the word ‘media’ in the filename. I never could figure out why TNG stores all its ‘media’ in a folder called ‘photos’ – but all of the files in that ‘photos’ folder are not categorized as ‘photos’ by TNG. (I would appreciate an explanation, if anyone has one.) Once I accepted this strange-to-me file structure, things went more smoothly for me.

The other major concept to accept is that the gedcom file created by FTM contains links to your media file, but you have to use a separate process to load the images from your media file into the photos folder in TNG. I used the filezilla ftp program.

Since I keep ALL media in FTM in one folder on my desktop computer and do not have any of that media categorized into subcategories yet, I decided to go slowly and to worry about categorizing media for TNG at some later time.

Do you currently categorize your media in FTM?

Another major sticking point for me was that TNG kept hanging when I tried the step to generate the thumbnails. I learned this was because some of my media files were larger than 1 mb. I learned to create the thumbnail files outside of TNG and load them along with the media files.

After a couple of false starts, I scrapped everything and started all over when TNG version 13.1.1 came out.

I also would like to use Wordpress, but decided that is definitely a project for later.

Jackie

My site is not available, as I am still working on it in a setup available on my desktop computer only.

[Rachael Williams]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:45 AM, fluffy82 said:

On my harddrive, within FTM, these files are also stored in folders with the identical name as the "collections" in TNG. When importing a gedcom, all I have to do is copy my folders from FTM into TNG, ignore or overwrite doubles, and all files are automatically in the right collection.

So, the trick is not to keep all your files in the standard FTM media-folder, but already have them in the correct folders.

@fluffy82Thank you for explaining this!

Question #1: Do you mean that you have created sub-folders that are within the FTM Media folder on your hard drive? And that FTM recognizes the sub-folders:

On 3/6/2022 at 10:45 AM, fluffy82 said:

portraits, deaths, baptisms, heraldry, buildings, maps,....

Or, do you copy these media items to a set of sub-folders that exist outside of your FTM Media folder?

I have my FTM media organized into groups in the FTM Media Collections tab/pane, but FTM still stores all of this media in one Media folder and one sub-folder called "Person Profiles." If there is a way to set-up FTM to recognize multiple media folders that would be great!

[Philip Roy]

7 hours ago, jackindy said:

In FTM, all media is in one folder with the word ‘media’ in the filename. I never could figure out why TNG stores all its ‘media’ in a folder called ‘photos’ – but all of the files in that ‘photos’ folder are not categorized as ‘photos’ by TNG. (I would appreciate an explanation, if anyone has one.) Once I accepted this strange-to-me file structure, things went more smoothly for me.

I know Darrin is a Mac user...maybe he used to be a Reunion user, as that Mac app uses a folder called "Photos"?...but I also have to disagree. I have folders outside of photos that are called "documents", "multimedia" and "headstones" that contain media. In TNG settings, I just indicate where those folders are in the Paths and Folders settings. All my work is done in Reunion and then I import an update of the GEDCOM now and then.

7 hours ago, jackindy said:

Another major sticking point for me was that TNG kept hanging when I tried the step to generate the thumbnails. I learned this was because some of my media files were larger than 1 mb. I learned to create the thumbnail files outside of TNG and load them along with the media files.

Yikes! That actually is the one thing about the post that scared me. We do have a lot of people run into problems in the forum with large images. I think people see something like a 1Mb file as not that big and assume that browsers can easily handle larger files..they can't...and you might find that people will start to report that the site seems sluggish or that images can't load, when it goes live. That's my opinion (as someone who built websites commercially for a few years) so I'd advise to try and keep images below 1Mb. As you are developing things locally, you won't be seeing the impact of those choices at the moment.

[theKiwi]

7 hours ago, jackindy said:

In FTM, all media is in one folder with the word ‘media’ in the filename. I never could figure out why TNG stores all its ‘media’ in a folder called ‘photos’ – but all of the files in that ‘photos’ folder are not categorized as ‘photos’ by TNG. (I would appreciate an explanation, if anyone has one.) Once I accepted this strange-to-me file structure, things went more smoothly for me.

Two several things here...

1 - TNG stores what it thinks are photos in the photos folder. In TNG-speak, "media" is all of the items attached to a person or thing in TNG - and includes (again in TNG-speak), photos, documents, headstones, and "media" which TNG thinks are sound and video files.

2 - on import to TNG, TNG looks at the file suffix and makes a determination as to what they likely are - so for example .png, .gif, .jp(e)g are classified as photos since they are image files; .pdf are classified as documents by TNG.

3 - on import to TNG, it also looks at the path to the image, and if it matches a path set for a mediatype/Collection in your Import settings, it assigns that item to a collection, and over-rides the determination made by looking at the file suffix.

See this article on the Wiki for information about this - https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php?title=Import_Media_Using_GEDCOM

This is why it's easy for some users to put photo type files in the headstones, and on import TNG correctly assigns them as headstones. As Philip notes above, it's easy for Reunion users, because Reunion doesn't insist on everything being in one folder.

FTM doesn't insist on this either if you're just working locally - you can arrange your media in folders and sub-folders and then link them in FTM and it can handle that I think - at least it does for the small amount of playing around with FTM that I do on my Macintosh - and a GEDCOM exported from Reunion, and imported in to FTM correctly handles the paths that Reunion generated to have media items in folders and sub-folders.

Where I believe it comes unstuck for FTM users is the connection to Ancestry.com - that's the connection that decides to put everything into one single folder on your computer, so if you are linking up census etc documents on Ancestry and synching down to your computer, it all gets put in that single folder.

Roger

[theKiwi]

17 minutes ago, Philip Roy said:

I know Darrin is a Mac user...maybe he used to be a Reunion user, as that Mac app uses a folder called "Photos"?...but I also have to disagree. I have folders outside of photos that are called "documents", "multimedia" and "headstones" that contain media. In TNG settings, I just indicate where those folders are in the Paths and Folders settings. All my work is done in Reunion and then I import an update of the GEDCOM now and then.

1 - Darrin wrote TNG long before he became a Macintosh user - he was a Windows user for many years - and who know, maybe still has a Windows computer too?

2 - The default for Reunion to store media items in, if you don't go ahead and create a hierarchy of folders is a folder with the path "~/Pictures/Reunion Pictures"

3 - How Reunion works is not really relevant to how FTM works in terms of media items. Probably other software can work in a similar fashion with different folders and sub-folders for the different collections that TNG recognises, but FTM, especially as synched to Ancestry.com doesn't work that way.

I certainly would be interested in hearing in more detail from @fluffy82 on how they have it set up at their end, including whether the folders and sub-folders work for 2 way synching to/from Ancestry.com if that's part of the workflow - I can see it working perhaps if Ancestry.com is not part of the process.

Roger

[theKiwi]

Right now, part of Rachael's problems seem to be that something in FTM is askew - the media items that are imported from the GEDCOM that aren't linked to anyone in TNG, actually aren't linked to anyone in the GEDCOM file which she's sent me - both the file out of FTM and the file as changed by the GEDCOM Convertor.

So for example TNG imports the media item described here in the GEDCOM file

0 @M2317@ OBJE
1 FILE C:\Users\Rachael\Documents\Family Tree Maker\LincolnCemetery Media\ Arianna Price.jpg
2 FORM jpg
2 TITL  Arianna Price
2 _DATE 1879

but there is no reference in the GEDCOM file to that M2317 media item - hence TNG imports the media but can't link it to anyone as there's no instruction in the GEDCOM file to do so.

Until this situation is resolved getting them into the right place in TNG is moot.

Roger

[fluffy82]

16 hours ago, Rachael Williams said:

 Question #1: Do you mean that you have created sub-folders that are within the FTM Media folder on your hard drive? And that FTM recognizes the sub-folders:

On 3/6/2022 at 4:45 PM, fluffy82 said:

portraits, deaths, baptisms, heraldry, buildings, maps,....

Or, do you copy these media items to a set of sub-folders that exist outside of your FTM Media folder?

I have my FTM media organized into groups in the FTM Media Collections tab/pane, but FTM still stores all of this media in one Media folder and one sub-folder called "Person Profiles." If there is a way to set-up FTM to recognize multiple media folders that would be great!

I have subfolders within the FTM media folder, but in theory you could have them werever you want.

When you import an image, you have three options:

1. copy file to media folder (and keep original)
2. move file to media folder (and delete original)
3. link to current location

What I do, is I put the file in the appropriate folder before importing it, and tell FTM to link to that location and not move or copy the file.

If you have already imported your media and have them all together in one folder, it is still possible to separate them into subfolders, but you'll need to do it within FTM, and move every media item by hand, one by one... Maybe moving them into subfolders and the "search missing media" function will work (do it again for each folder), but I never tried that so I'm not sure. Moving them one by one is safer.