Add citation section

[rcpettit]

Is there any plans to add a citations section to the admin area.  It seems a waste of space to have multiple copies of a citation in the database and having to edit them individually if you make an error.

[fluffy82]

10 hours ago, rcpettit said:

Is there any plans to add a citations section to the admin area.  It seems a waste of space to have multiple copies of a citation in the database and having to edit them individually if you make an error.

It would be even more helpful to have TNG consider them one single citation, used multiple times...

[Michael T. Jones]

I agree - you can make things somewhat easier by editing in phpmyadmin vs. clicking into each citation, but it would be easier if there were a citation section in the admin area.

[c18913]

Oh, I think that's a great idea. I struggle the most with getting sources/citations to display in a way that I am pleased with. I would love to have a "bibliography" (source) master/index page and then have individual citations on the person page. 

[ton van lil]

Great idea. May be Darrin can program this in the next version.

[Katryne]

Deleted

Edited March 23, 2023 by Katryne
not relevant

[Katryne]

Would this mod be of some help ? Citations Master : https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php/Citation_Master

[Bill Herndon]

5 hours ago, Katryne said:

Would this mod be of some help ? Citations Master : https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php/Citation_Master

Citation Master addresses c18913's need for bibliographic style presentation of sources and citations, but it doesn't add any functionality that helps with editing and managing source and citation data.  In fact, if you have a "TNG only" installation for your genealogy database--in other words you don't import your data from a genealogy program--there is a trick to using Citation Master that I can elaborate on for anyone who is interested.

Bill Herndon (Citation Master's author/developer)

Lindell-Herndon Genealogy

[mycroft]

I would say it's among top-3 irritating things in TNG software. I suggested this feature to Darrin and it's on his long list 🤪

Not sure if when more people raise this concern to him, it will speed up development even by a tiny margin.

[marcirish]

12 hours ago, Bill Herndon said:

Citation Master addresses c18913's need for bibliographic style presentation of sources and citations, but it doesn't add any functionality that helps with editing and managing source and citation data.  In fact, if you have a "TNG only" installation for your genealogy database--in other words you don't import your data from a genealogy program--there is a trick to using Citation Master that I can elaborate on for anyone who is interested.

Bill Herndon (Citation Master's author/developer)

Lindell-Herndon Genealogy

Bill,

I’m very interested in the “trick” to using Citation Master when I don’t import a GEDCOM file.

 

Marc Irish

[edglimited]

On 3/23/2023 at 1:44 AM, c18913 said:

I struggle the most with getting sources/citations to display in a way that I am pleased with.

What way is that..????

On 3/23/2023 at 1:44 AM, c18913 said:

I would love to have a "bibliography" (source) master/index page and then have individual citations on the person page.

There is a master index page, it's under Admin. Called Sources..!! + you can have individual citations on a persons page now. You can also link each source back to the individual concerned, the link to Johannes Edehart Syverts Van Peer, is clickable and will take you too his page in a new window. (1st pic). Having access to everything is as simple as placing it on your inner menubar in getperson. How you link and what you link is up to you. (2nd pic). TNG can be engineered to whatever you want it to be. In my case, my getperson page is setup for research.

The more info, you can provide, the more you can be pointed in the right direction.

Drew..

 

 

[Uli]

Hi 

we gonna use TNG for working on a parish-book in a group of genealogists.

So for us it is important to put the text of e.g. a bapt-record into the event AND in the Source, which is the parish-book. In the end you should know where the person was baptized, where I can find the Text and read the text (probaly also see a digital photo of the page in the parish book.).

So my question is: In your experience: Where would you place the text of the citation from the parishbook?

I personally use gramps. There I can paste the text in a note to the citation which ist connected to the source.

Help appreciated

cheers 

Uli

[c18913]

(my apologies for delay in response, family responsibilities took me away for a while)

 edglimited Drew, if my TNG worked the way yours is displaying, that would be close to what I want. However, my search tab doesn't look like yours and doesn't give an option to search by person. How did you modify or add functionality to get to that set?. This is what mine looks like:

 

I love the way the get person menu bar is set up. Can you share any hints about how you engineered that? Are they changes you coded in or did you use mods? I, too, would like my pages to reflect the research/sources, not just the final results. Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

--Christy

[edglimited]

Hi Christy, to start there are two Templates in play. The 1st is Template 4, which morphed into Template 20. I originaly used Template 20 and made changes to the Left Hand Menu, which is controlled by the Header Menu. This was an Accordion Menu that was simply copy and pasted several times and each paste renamed, then links added. The Search that you refer too..??? (First and Surname) is part of Template 20....

(As you can see from the snap, the Home and User Tab are present to show you what happens if too many Tabs are added. On a normal Template (15), there is no error, on a short width Template, you get pushout. With Template 20, Login, Home, Logout etc are part of the Left Hand Menu, so not really required in the Slim Line MenuBar).

....Or if you mean the extra Tab "Format", that is from a Mod by Bill Herndon called Citation Manager. (I forgot I had downloaded it).
https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php/Citation_Master  Bill can tell you more about how it truly functions etc.!!

The Menu Bar in my Getperson.php file is modified along with my Genlib.php file. The idea came from a Mod by Michel Kirsch called
https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php/Direct_Edit_Menu  I simply added more links via my Genlib File. The Mod remained untouched.

The workings in my Getperson.php file have been modified, as can be seen in the pic below. In the overlap, the reworked is on the left and the original on the right. Additions also had to be made to languages as well. All of it was relatively easy, just time consuming.

For example, in the last pic, if Christina wasn't titled a Lady, then the title wouldn't appear in her profile, same for Family Connection, or Formally known as etc etc..

Drew..

 

[c18913]

OK Drew, you've just tripled my "to do" list. I'm not a coder and succeed merely by trial and (lots of)error, so mimicking some of your changes that I like is certainly going to take a while!  But thanks for the explanations and I follow (at least theoretically) what you did and will update you when I get some of the changes to work on my site. Thanks so much for sharing, I very much appreciate it.....now, back to work.

[edglimited]

Hi Christy,
Just be mindful of the following...
 

1 hour ago, c18913 said:

you've just tripled my "to do" list.

If you use multiple languages on your site, then that number will triple again, because each language will need to be modified and translated. Osu.
 

1 hour ago, c18913 said:

will update you when I get some of the changes to work on my site.

If and when you get started and your not 100% sure, let me know, I can walk you through the files and where to make the edits. I can give you the code that you can insert etc. If you update your site, with TNG Updates, then all the changes you have made could be lost, which means start again.!!  So file renames maybe required.

Let me know, what Template you are thinking of using, full width or cropped etc.

Drew..

[Michael T. Jones]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:12 AM, Bill Herndon said:

In fact, if you have a "TNG only" installation for your genealogy database--in other words you don't import your data from a genealogy program--there is a trick to using Citation Master that I can elaborate on for anyone who is interested.

Bill Herndon (Citation Master's author/developer)

Lindell-Herndon Genealogy

I’m curious about this as I’m embarking on a re-do of everything and using only TNG. What’s the trick?

Thanks!

[Katryne]

Hello, I am curious too : why would a TNG mod run from start only if TNG is used in combination with another software ? Does Citation master work only in the case of gedcom import for genealogists who work locally and use TNG only for online display ?

From the day I started using TNG, I threw away all other computer softwares. I still think this is the main interest of TNG, what makes it so special, so great: working directly where the publication is done.

I am very interested in this citation management and I want to use it in the framework I just described: TNG only.

 

[Bill Herndon]

2 hours ago, Katryne said:

Hello, I am curious too : why would a TNG mod run from start only if TNG is used in combination with another software ? Does Citation master work only in the case of gedcom import for genealogists who work locally and use TNG only for online display ?

@Katryne ... The short answer is:  Citation Master can be used by genealogists who use TNG exclusively **AND** by genealogists who import from other software.  But the Mod was originally designed for my own use, and I import from Reunion (on macOS).  The limitation for mod users who use TNG exclusively has to do with identifying different formats for different source types--books vs. newspapers vs. census forms...for example.  The limitation can be overcome, as I will discuss in a separate response. 

With respect to your comments about using TNG exclusively:  I have many reasons for choosing not to use TNG as my primary database, data security and resiliency being the two most important, but that's a topic for an entirely new thread.

Also, I should probably mention in case it's not made clear above... Citation Master is for **formatting** sources and citations.  The Mod does not help one manage them.

Bill Herndon

[Katryne]

Merci Bill, and sorry if my message may have sounded agressive, I did not meant it. English is not my native language.

I know well what your mod do : format citation.

 And thank you for it. I am waiting your extra explanation.

[Bill Herndon]

8 hours ago, Michael T. Jones said:

I’m curious about this as I’m embarking on a re-do of everything and using only TNG. What’s the trick?

Thanks!

@Katryne, @Michael T. Jones, and @marcirish  The trick to using Citation Master in a 'TNG-only' installation has to do with providing a source field and value that can be used by the Mod's rendering engine to choose formatting instructions.  If this sounds complicated...yeah...it sort of is, but I'll try to explain.

Citation Master, as you've probably already discovered if you've installed it, has a default way of formatting sources and citations, even if you don't create any custom instruction sets.  If the default instruction set, from one of the supplied specifications (ABA, IEEE, CMoS, EvEx), does the trick, then you don't need to do anything else.  But most genealogists have a dozen or more source types, and each citation standard formats them differently. 

Desktop genealogy software usually associates a 'source type' with each source or citation.  My software, Reunion, uses the GEDCOM tag TYPE with a value like 'Book' or 'Census' or 'Newspaper'.  Here's an example from my own GEDCOM file:

0 @S1218@ SOUR
1 TYPE Vital Record
1 _EREF Holbrook-1883a
1 AUTH Holbrook, Jay and Delene
1 TITL Marriage Entry for George E. Whitehead and Evelyn L. Dean
1 _CMPL Massachusetts Vital and Town Records, 1620 - 1988: Marriages Registered in Taunton For the Year 1883
1 PUBL Provo, Utah: Holbrook Research Institute, 2011
1 _DETA volume 343, page 185, entry 205
1 MEDI Microfil
1 PLAC Taunton, Bristol County, Massachusetts, United States
1 DATE 28 Nov 1883
1 _LOCA Image (JPG): William Robert Herndon
1 CHAN
2 DATE 3 JAN 2016

That second line "TYPE Vital Record" is the important one.  The GEDCOM tag TYPE is imported into TNG as a custom event and is attached to a source record in the TNG database.  Citation Master searches for this custom event each time it attempts to format a source or citation.  It chooses the set of formatting instructions based on the value of the TYPE custom event.  "Vital Record", in this case, appears in my Citation Master specification file with specific formatting instructions.  The problem for 'TNG only' databases is that the sources have no custom event and value that the rendering engine can use to pick a set of formatting instructions.  So the default formatting instructions get used...every time!

So here's the trick:  Create a custom event to represent your source types, assign it a GEDCOM tag (as required by the custom event interface)--I recommend the tag "TYPE" because that's the default specified in the Mod's parameters, but you can choose anything--and then create an instance of that custom event with a value each time you create a new source.  You'll need as many unique values as you have unique source formats.  I have about 2500 sources in my database; about 12 different source types; but only 5 or 6 sets of formatting instructions.  So I have as many source types as I have instructions sets...5 or 6.  Extensive use of common source fields like _CMPL and _DETA help me reduce the number of instructions and source types needed.

I know this was a lot to digest.  We can probably take this to another forum thread for questions.

Bill Herndon

 

 

 

[Katryne]

Thank you Bill, for this long explanation. I am not sure I understood everything, just that your mod will not comply with the way I organized my citations.

[c18913]

@edglimited

Drew, Thanks. I will take you up on your office of advice!! Right now, my daughter is graduating from high school and my middle son from college, all in the new month, so my genealogy time is being taking up with prom dress alterations, resume proofing and organizing graduation events. Hopefully by end of May, I can dive back in and I have tons of downtime this summer to really nail the formatting, etc. Citations is the big area I have left to get ready before I share my site with family, and as I said, I really like the framework you have for yours. I've put *so much* research into locating and documenting family history that I want to make sure that research is shared and featured. So, long story short: don't be surprised when you hear from me, frustrated and frazzled because mine doesn't look as nice as yours!!  Take care and I'll re-appear in a few weeks.