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klooster

Coat of Arms

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BuckyE

"Arms" are actually a fascinating bit of Americana, too. My family found two ancestral lines they thought were entitled to claim arms. When I was growing up, there were two coats of arms dicreetly displayed in picture frames in our dining room.

This was apparently a huge fad back in Victorian times, perhaps begun by ancestral fervor sparked by the Centennial of the United States in 1876. Suddenly everyone was digging up these knightly ancestors. The fad led to some of the most egregiously bad genealogy done since the royal families of Europe tried to find ancient lineages to validate their rules.

I don't think any of my great aunts wanted to bear arms themselves. No one had their cars or handkerchiefs blazoned. Well, come to think about it, maybe some of them had stationery made. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure my elderly relatives knew enough about heraldry to realize they themselves, not having the correct names, being of "collateral descent," so to speak, couldn't really bear arms in the classic sense. They were just proud to have these ancestors.

As it turns out, both claims made by "family researchers" for knightly origins of our ancestors were just wrong, and the Victorian era researchers probably knew it. I think my relatives took it for granted, or at least were willing to not question too rigorously, the validity of what they read in books published in 1891 and 1910, even though these books contained NO documentation WHATSOEVER.

And, you can today find hundreds of web sites repeating, without the least attempt at verification, the bogus lineages the Victorian family researchers cooked up. I know, because it's taken me a couple of months to work through this for my own family. Yes, I began by blithely entering the old time cr*p I found in the notebooks left to my siblings and myself. I started to "confirm" it on the Web: there were plenty of sites making the same claims I found in our papers.

But it didn't take long to run across a naysayer or two, and when I started digging, and emailing, oh boy. Did I turn up some vitriol about the Victorian "arms hunters." Apparently lots of much more serious researchers than am I have spent a lot of time trying to straighten out the wayward Victorians, and these moderns resent it! Well, I don't think the moderns "resent" the time spent, so much as they are outraged by the low standards of the Victorians. You know what I mean? "How COULD they have? It's a disgrace to genealogy!" That kind of thing.

Well, at this late date, it makes for good stories. I too have wasted a bit of time entering stuff I shouldn't have, and have some correcting to do. But what a hoot!

http://lovebunnies.luckypro.biz/genealogy/

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gvdm

You are so right Bucky, and it actually is getting worse with all the internet and shopping mall "We have your Coat of Arms" places, none of which do any research at all and the chance of them getting it right is slim and none.

Heraldry can be a fantastic tool the farther you go back in history to see relations develop though. Here is one example: Jan van Drongelen Landcommandeur of the Duitse Orde in Utrecht.

IPB Image

His ancestory is part of his arms. The arms include van Drongelen, van Heusden and van der Merwede.

Here is a picture from his grave marker:

IPB Image

As you stated bucky there was a lot of fraudulant use in victorian times and present day. Prior to these eras, heraldry can be an invaluabe resource to genealogists. In addition seals on unsigned documents will tell us who the person is as every seal was different exclusive to the individual. I can post some seals later if there is interest.

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BuckyE

Love the wheel! Is that a punning symbol, or a historic reference?

You're so right about the online "Your Family Crest" places, but not ALL the services are bogus. I know a fellow who claims to have paid $1,000 to have a professional English herald research a supposed arms bearing ancestor. My friend was told he had no claim: the ancestor couldn't be verified as a member of the supposed arms bearing ancestral family. But he still had to pay the bill. Ouch.

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gvdm

Love the wheel! Is that a punning symbol, or a historic reference?

You're so right about the online "Your Family Crest" places, but not ALL the services are bogus. I know a fellow who claims to have paid $1,000 to have a professional English herald research a supposed arms bearing ancestor. My friend was told he had no claim: the ancestor couldn't be verified as a member of the supposed arms bearing ancestral family. But he still had to pay the bill. Ouch.

Your right, a true herald is a different story. I was strictly referring to the places that advertise "family Coat of Arms". There is even one in Disney World, which fits well :lol:

There must be a full genealogical search to determine if someone is entitled to arms as they only pass through the legitimate male line. In UK heraldry only to the oldest male son. Younger branches have a difference placed on the arms. Continental Europe mostly to all sons with no difference. Women displayed their fathers arms on a lozenge or oval, not on a shield. These would not pass to their children unless combined with those of an armiger husband (this is called marshaling). The above post was an example of marshaled arms.

Actually $1000 wasn't too bad, I've seen much higher costs.....

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PalmBeachG

EDITED MESSAGE - SORRY, BUT I HAVE NOT RENEWED MY URL'S THAT WERE REFERRED TO IN THIS MESSAGE. I WILL BE STARTING A NEW HOUGHAM FAMILY WEBSITE EVENTUALLY. THOUGHT I BETTER DELETE THE URLS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT BUY THEM, but I cannot delete the links on the quotes in the thread. Just thought I would let everyone know.

Very nice. I too have coat of arms - I know for sure - no Disney stuff.

The first one in my family was Robert de Hougham who received it because of fighting the "Battle of Acre" in Palestine with King Richard I.

I have the picture of the one I made on my homepage.

The arms were passed down to more knights in the family. Solomon Hougham who was born ABT 1475 received them as well. He is in the stained glass window at a church in England, I can see what he looked like! That is exciting to see what someone looks like from that long ago.

I did research and found out and verified that Robert de Hougham fought in the "Battle of Acre" in Palestine

I will read yours when I have a little more time. Have you ever come across elephants? I am trying to find out what the elephants meant. My uncle told me he always heard it was because elephants were the only animal that could kill a tiger; but he may be just embelling a story.

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klooster

The ellepant is heraldic symbol that denotes great strength, greater wit and greatest ambition. The Elephant was the ensign of Cyneus, king of Scythia, and Idomenes, king of Thessaly. Elephants are the bearers of kings and queens and so a symbol of royalty, prosperity, temperance, dignity, and power. In 250 BC, Pyrrhus, the king of Epirus (now North Albania), with an army of 25,000 men and 20 Elephants won a hard-fought victory over the Romans at Heraclea. At a crucial phase of the battle, Pyrrhus ordered his Elephants to charge and it was too much for the Roman legions. The Romans had never seen Elephants before and called them 'Lucanian Cows'. The Elephant was the totem animal of the god Shiva, the Destroyer, who seeks to banish illusion and to encourage a clearer perception of reality.

The Malatesta family (Rimini Italy) adopted the elephant as part of their heraldry, as it stood for strength and fame.

http://www.riminiturismo.it/rimini/guida/eng/elefante.htm

Very nice. I too have coat of arms - I know for sure - no Disney stuff.

The first one in my family was Robert de Hougham who received it because of fighting the "Battle of Acre" in Palestine with King Richard I.

I have the picture of the one I made on my homepage: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com

The arms were passed down to more knights in the family. Solomon Hougham who was born ABT 1475 received them as well. He is in the stained glass window at a church in England, I can see what he looked like! That is exciting to see what someone looks like from that long ago. Here is the page with Solomon's picture http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto.php?photoID=2 and here is the page with the picture of the arms in the stained glass http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto.php?photoID=64

I did some research and verified the "Battle of Acre" in Palestine part. Here is the story I found in England: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/histories...ghamHistory.jpg

and also one description of the arms I found in England: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/histories...neralArmory.jpg

I will read yours when I have a little more time. Have you ever come across elephants? I am trying to find out what the elephants meant. My uncle told me he always heard it was because elephants were the only animal that could kill a tiger; but he may be just embelling a story.

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PalmBeachG

The ellepant is heraldic symbol that denotes great strength, greater wit and greatest ambition. The Elephant was the ensign of Cyneus, king of Scythia, and Idomenes, king of Thessaly. Elephants are the bearers of kings and queens and so a symbol of royalty, prosperity, temperance, dignity, and power. In 250 BC, Pyrrhus, the king of Epirus (now North Albania), with an army of 25,000 men and 20 Elephants won a hard-fought victory over the Romans at Heraclea. At a crucial phase of the battle, Pyrrhus ordered his Elephants to charge and it was too much for the Roman legions. The Romans had never seen Elephants before and called them 'Lucanian Cows'. The Elephant was the totem animal of the god Shiva, the Destroyer, who seeks to banish illusion and to encourage a clearer perception of reality.

The Malatesta family (Rimini Italy) adopted the elephant as part of their heraldry, as it stood for strength and fame.

http://www.riminiturismo.it/rimini/guida/eng/elefante.htm

Thanks so much for taking the time to post this about the Elephants. It makes sense and always wondered what could be the meaning of the elephants. I still am going to read your arms story; haven't had time yet.

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PalmBeachG

OK, I finally got a chance to read your story on heraldry and your Coat of Arms. I think that is really great that you designed it and put so much thought into it, and that you are willing to share it with all the other relatives. That must have taken alot of work; I can't imagine. The story about your house is interesting too - how old is the house?

You prompted me to do a little more research on my family's arms, and actually found another one on the internet - I think that they change over the years, getting quarted, etc.,; I have not done too much research on how that happens yet.

But I added the other picture on my website homepage; http://www.houghamfamilytree.com with the source from where it came.

For anyone else wanting to find their arms they may have luck here (this is where I found mine): http://briantimms.com/#era

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gvdm

OK, I finally got a chance to read your story on heraldry and your Coat of Arms. I think that is really great that you designed it and put so much thought into it, and that you are willing to share it with all the other relatives. That must have taken alot of work; I can't imagine. The story about your house is interesting too - how old is the house?

You prompted me to do a little more research on my family's arms, and actually found another one on the internet - I think that they change over the years, getting quarted, etc.,; I have not done too much research on how that happens yet.

But I added the other picture on my website homepage; http://www.houghamfamilytree.com with the source from where it came.

For anyone else wanting to find their arms they may have luck here (this is where I found mine): http://briantimms.com/#era

Hi,

Which of your relatives bore that coat of arms? It should be easy to find the how and why of the change in arms that way. The problem arises when people try to tie surnames to coats of arms. A persons surname has nothing to do with whether they do or do not have a coat of arms. To have claim to a Coat of Arms a person must be in direct male line decent of the person who bore those arms.

kind regards

George

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PalmBeachG

Hi,

Which of your relatives bore that coat of arms? It should be easy to find the how and why of the change in arms that way. The problem arises when people try to tie surnames to coats of arms. A persons surname has nothing to do with whether they do or do not have a coat of arms. To have claim to a Coat of Arms a person must be in direct male line decent of the person who bore those arms.

kind regards

George

1) Robert de Hougham born 1140 - 1160 in England ("Ar .5 chevs, sable"). 1st one to bear arms in my family, and the first one to be knighted in my family.

2) Solomon Hougham - In the stained glass window in St. Nicholas Church in Ash, Kent, England. On his tabard are the arms newly acquired for quartering with the original coat of Hougham and that he is depicted with spurs signifying that he received Knighthood. Above him in the stained glass window is the arms with the 3 elephant heads. Relatives still living on a Hougham farm from the beginning of US Hougham's who immigrated gave me a mold of the arms which I filled with plaster of paris and painted myself. That is the picture on my website.

Sources:

"Robert de Hougham I accompanied King Richard 1st "The Lion Heart" to Palestine in the Crusades. He is the first Hougham to be knighted and receive Coat of Arms. -The arms being "Ar .5 chevs, sable"

And I found another reference to the arms from the same source

"Hougham (Hougham, Wedington, and Barton Kent; Solomon Hougham, Esq., of Barton Hougham co. Kent 1696; decended from Robert de Hougham, temp. Richard I.). Ar. five chevronels by Robert De Hougham, at the siege of Acon, in temp. Edward I.; the family sometimes bore, Or, betw. three elephants' heads erased gu. as man ar. Crest - On a chapeau gu. turned up orm. a with wings expanded or, beaked and belled of the"

Source: 1606 General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales > General Armory > City Information (retrieved from ancestry.com), by Sir Bernard Burke, 1884

I got the drawing of these Robert de Hougham arms online.

Source: 4497 Argent five chevrons sable Robert de Hougham HE 694 A 71

The Heralds' Roll, Part 14, Nos 651 - 697

reference: http://briantimms.com/rolls/heraldsHE14.htm

Here are links to the 2 men:

Robert - http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/getperson...92&tree=hougham

Solomon - http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/getperson...03&tree=hougham

Picture of the arms above Solomon in the stained glass window: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto...gham&ordernum=2

Picture of Solomon in the stained glass window (it is fun to be able to see what he actually looked like - he is my 13th great-grandfather: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto...gham&ordernum=1

I just notice that I think there is a third arms, below Solomon.

So, I naturally would not be able to claim any arms since I am a woman but I wonder about my son; changed names because of woman marriage though. So his last name is not Hougham. Would he have a claim? or is it just if your last name is Hougham? I am new at this - have been trying to do some research on it.

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gvdm

1) Robert de Hougham born 1140 - 1160 in England ("Ar .5 chevs, sable"). 1st one to bear arms in my family, and the first one to be knighted in my family.

2) Solomon Hougham - In the stained glass window in St. Nicholas Church in Ash, Kent, England. On his tabard are the arms newly acquired for quartering with the original coat of Hougham and that he is depicted with spurs signifying that he received Knighthood. Above him in the stained glass window is the arms with the 3 elephant heads. Relatives still living on a Hougham farm from the beginning of US Hougham's who immigrated gave me a mold of the arms which I filled with plaster of paris and painted myself. That is the picture on my website.

Sources:

"Robert de Hougham I accompanied King Richard 1st "The Lion Heart" to Palestine in the Crusades. He is the first Hougham to be knighted and receive Coat of Arms. -The arms being "Ar .5 chevs, sable"

And I found another reference to the arms from the same source

"Hougham (Hougham, Wedington, and Barton Kent; Solomon Hougham, Esq., of Barton Hougham co. Kent 1696; decended from Robert de Hougham, temp. Richard I.). Ar. five chevronels by Robert De Hougham, at the siege of Acon, in temp. Edward I.; the family sometimes bore, Or, betw. three elephants' heads erased gu. as man ar. Crest - On a chapeau gu. turned up orm. a with wings expanded or, beaked and belled of the"

Source: 1606 General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales > General Armory > City Information (retrieved from ancestry.com), by Sir Bernard Burke, 1884

I got the drawing of these Robert de Hougham arms online.

Source: 4497 Argent five chevrons sable Robert de Hougham HE 694 A 71

The Heralds' Roll, Part 14, Nos 651 - 697

reference: http://briantimms.com/rolls/heraldsHE14.htm

Here are links to the 2 men:

Robert - http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/getperson...92&tree=hougham

Solomon - http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/getperson...03&tree=hougham

Picture of the arms above Solomon in the stained glass window: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto...gham&ordernum=2

Picture of Solomon in the stained glass window (it is fun to be able to see what he actually looked like - he is my 13th great-grandfather: http://www.houghamfamilytree.com/showphoto...gham&ordernum=1

I just notice that I think there is a third arms, below Solomon.

So, I naturally would not be able to claim any arms since I am a woman but I wonder about my son; changed names because of woman marriage though. So his last name is not Hougham. Would he have a claim? or is it just if your last name is Hougham? I am new at this - have been trying to do some research on it.

I love the stained glass of Soloman, absolutely beautiful. It is nice you can access all these records. You have a rich history.

Unfortunately your son would have no claims to the arms since they pass through male bloodline. He would have claim to any arms his biological father had, if any. Very few people have a true calim to armorial bearings. Now they could be martialed to arms to keep them alive. If you are from the male line directly from one of the armigers you would bear the arms on a lozenge or oval. Your son could adopt arms marshalled to the Hougham arms. If his father didn't have legitimate arms there is no reason your son could not design his own marshalled with the Hougham arms. I think that would be very nice actually.

kind regards

George

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PalmBeachG

I love the stained glass of Soloman, absolutely beautiful. It is nice you can access all these records. You have a rich history.

Unfortunately your son would have no claims to the arms since they pass through male bloodline. He would have claim to any arms his biological father had, if any. Very few people have a true calim to armorial bearings. Now they could be martialed to arms to keep them alive. If you are from the male line directly from one of the armigers you would bear the arms on a lozenge or oval. Your son could adopt arms marshalled to the Hougham arms. If his father didn't have legitimate arms there is no reason your son could not design his own marshalled with the Hougham arms. I think that would be very nice actually.

kind regards

George

Well, haven't gotten that far with my son's last name yet; but they are from England too; so maybe who knows.

My cousin does decend directly from the male line - Hougham to Hougham all males - but I mentioned it and he doesn't seem to be too interested. Isn't that always the case?

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paolo

Hi I'm kind of stumped with regards to my coat of arms. The attached is my only reference. It is a doc fromkingdom of Italy 1900. I can't figure out what the fesses charged w lines. The other charges are grenade cross and eight point stars. Can anyone take a stab ? Much appreciated.

Paolo

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