Imported sources are missing a title.

[Keith]

I have just imported my first Gedcom into TNG from Reunion 14. However, all sources are missing any kind of title. All that is populated is the actual text field.

I am supposed to manage the title and other fields manually?

 

Here is how my sources looks in Reunion...

And here is how it is importing into TNG...

 

Thanks

 

Keith

[Philip Roy]

Keith, my private site is all entirely based on a Reunion import. No one adds info on the site itself...or if they do, I put it into Reunion also. I say that, as I want to stress that later on in another post maybe, some of my settings about importing wipe all data when you import...so just be careful if we discuss that later and that's not what you are after.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with your source in Reunion. Here's an example (image 01) of one in mine and it's similar (and missing a lot of info...my info was mostly done by my parents, so I need to work on improving info at some point).

Sources do display on my TNG site, but oddly, when I looked at one of them (see image 02), the title went into the "Long Title" field...and the one that says "Required" is empty. Strange...as my sources do appear on my site...but I might investigate further.

The issue is either with the gedcom you are importing, or the import process in TNG. Let's start with the gedcom.

1. Here are the settings I use when exporting from Reunion 14 (see image 3). Probably the most important is to make sure that you have ticked to include sources?
2. Now that you have exported a gedcom file on your Mac, control-click (or right-click) on it (image 4) and choose to open it with something like TextEdit
3. When you have done that, have a look through and check a source listing (image 5) and check that the title information is in the gedcom.

If it's not, then the issue lies with Reunion. If it is, then we can look at the next step in terms of importing into TNG

 

If the source title info is in the gedcom file, please provide a screenshot of the settings you use when importing into TNG....what options you select etc, and we can go from there.

Edited August 5, 2025 by Philip Roy

[Keith]

Hi Phillip, Sorry for the delay in replying.

I have looked at the GEDCOM used for the import, which looks like this (though there are numerous references to this source)...

From looking at this, it appears that I am not passing out the structure of the source. What appears to be here is the SOUR reference to source S27, and the contents of the detail field in Reunion (see screenshot below).

 

Closeup...

 

Although I don't recall my exact settings when exporting, if I try another export now the fields are defaulting like this...

 

 

I assume, therefore, the issue is related to my exporting as a flat structure? I had assumed this would be needed so that TNG could cope with the varying structures of sources in Reunion.

If you can advise the correct settings for export from Reunion and Import on the TNG side, that would be very useful.

Like you, I intend for all editing and updates to take place in Reunion and use TNG purely for display to the outside world.

Keith

PS: My css issue you helped with was a caching issue with Cloudflare. Once turned off in Cloudflare, it resolved my issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Philip Roy]

I genuinely don’t know what that flat structure setting means. Have you looked at the Reunion help info?

To be honest, my export settings are based on what I read here a long time ago…

https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php?title=Reunion_9_(Macintosh)&setlang=da&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop
 

This previous discussion might be useful also…

https://tng.community/index.php?/forums/topic/15167-reunion-and-tng/

And you can also ask on Reunion Talk…

https://www.reuniontalk.com/forum/using-software-hardware-with-reunion/94989-exporting-to-tng

[theKiwi]

On 8/5/2025 at 4:18 PM, Keith said:

I have just imported my first Gedcom into TNG from Reunion 14. However, all sources are missing any kind of title. All that is populated is the actual text field.

I am supposed to manage the title and other fields manually?

 

Here is how my sources looks in Reunion...

And here is how it is importing into TNG...

 

Thanks

 

Keith

Post the part of the GEDCOM file that is about Source 27

So look through the GEDCOM file until you find a line like

0 @27@ SOUR
1 TYPE Web Site
1 TITL Website titled “Geni.com”
1 AUTH Anthony St. John Harvey
1 _PAG Geni - Florence India Hart
1 _URL https://www.geni.com/people/Florence-Hart/6000000013624995563
1 DATE viewed by Roger on 30 November 2024 (US EDT)
1 CHAN
2 DATE 30 NOV 2024
0 @27@ SOUR

is the block starts with the first line I've posted, and ends with the next line at the end

Post that complete snippet here and the answer should be apparent.

Roger

[Keith]

@Philip Roy Thanks for all of the links. I have checked my language settings which seem good (all set to UTF-8). I'll read through some of the other links and possibly seek help on the Reunion Forum (which I do read and contribute to).

@theKiwi

Here is how my GEDCOM looks for the actual source data...

Therefore, it seems the structure is being passed in. But, I'm still very confused as to what is going on in TNG vs Reunion. It seems that TNG is only populating the "actual text" field, but oddly is only filling it with the last TEXT entry from my GEDCOM. None of the rest of the structure is passed in.

On a person level, the text shown next to the S27 source is coming from the detail field entered next to the source in the (see previous screenshot).

Are you filling in the source fields in TNG yourself or are they being populated from Reunion?

Keith

[Philip Roy]

Sources in Reunion are things you create. But you also have to attach the source to a person or event. Are you doing that? So for example, my birthday was announced in the paper by dad at the time, so I’ve now got a copy of that announcement and the source I attach is the date, newspaper, page etc of that announcement.

Just a wild stab in the dark, but if you are not attaching sources to anything, maybe they don’t get exported? I have no idea.

Also, why don’t you try my export settings (with flat structure unticked) and see what happens? Open the file with the text editor and you’ll be able to see the outcome.

[Keith]

Yes, I am attaching sources to various events. I think some of the confusion comes with the use of the various notes/details and possibly how one uses the sources.

If you create a source, you can add this source to many people and events. But, when you add something in the details field, this is specific to this one use of the source and is not picked up when the source is used again (which makes sense).

I have now re-imported my GEDCOM, removing the flat structure check box, and the results are much better.

This is how source S27 looks now...

 

But, I still find it odd that nothing is populated for the short title, which is apparently a required field.

Here is an example of how that source looks in use.

Keith

 

[Philip Roy]

Yeah that’s what I noticed too. As mentioned, everything I do, I do in Reunion…so I’d never looked at an imported source in TNG itself. I’m not sure if it’s an issue with how we have TNG set up, how we import, if it’s a TNG bug or what. Hopefully someone might be able to tell us. In the meantime, I’m ok with how my sources display…but that’s not an answer to the problem.

[Philip Roy]

The other thing I noticed is that I just went into TNG and edited a source, left the "Required" short title empty and was able to save changes just as a test. If it's a required field, I would have thought TNG would have warned me?

My guess is...

• the import of title information is working fine
• Reunion doesn't have short titles for sources (as far as I can tell)
• maybe other software out there exports and includes a short title in the gedcom and so it was implemented
• short titles are not actually required....or maybe the gedcom import needs to be changed to map a gedcom that only has a title value, to both short title and title fields?

I confess I'm not going to lose sleep over it as it's not really of concern...but I did get slightly curious playing around.

[theKiwi]

On 8/11/2025 at 9:13 AM, Keith said:

Therefore, it seems the structure is being passed in. But, I'm still very confused as to what is going on in TNG vs Reunion. It seems that TNG is only populating the "actual text" field, but oddly is only filling it with the last TEXT entry from my GEDCOM. None of the rest of the structure is passed in.

The structure you need is not being passed out from Reunion. This is what is in my GEDCOM file for a source

Quote

0 @S2931@ SOUR
1 TYPE Web Site
1 TITL Website titled “Geni.com”
1 AUTH Anthony St. John Harvey
1 _PAG Geni - Florence India Hart
1 _URL https://www.geni.com/people/Florence-Hart/6000000013624995563
1 DATE viewed by Roger on 30 November 2024 (US EDT)
1 CHAN
2 DATE 30 NOV 2024
0 @S2932@ SOUR

 

Notice here that the third line is

1 TITL Website titled "Geni.com"

This is that same source presented in TNG

https://lisaandroger.com/genealogy/showsource.php?sourceID=S2931&tree=Roger

Here's that source in Reunion

Your source doesn't have a

1 TITL 

line. The 

2 TITL

line is about the attached image.

Reunion's Field Settings ------>  Sources to see if the Title has a GEDCOM tag associated with it, and what is it?

On my setup the Title TITL field is put into TNG as the Short Title and so shows where you're expecting it to.

Roger

[Philip Roy]

I'm so confused. I looked at this yesterday on my copy of Reunion and thought I had things right. If you look at the fields I use for a newspaper, I have title.

If you look at what I have set for the TITL field, the only difference I see is I have a ticked box. Also attaching a source entry.

When is a title not a title but a short title?

[Keith]

Now that I am exporting my GEDCOM without the "flatten structure" checkbox, I am seeing the TITL element in the GEDCOM file as you would expect.

I have also checked in Reunion and my Title field is mapped to the TITL GEDCOM tag.

 

It's still not populating the short title but overall looks much better in use. Perhaps I need to stop worrying about it not populating the short title but like @Philip Roy I don't understand how the Short Title field is marked as required, yet will save without it being populated. 

 

 

 

 

[theKiwi]

I'm stumped - what I described works for me to get the TITL into Short Title. Not sure how that is working differently from others.

If one of you want to send me your GEDCOM file I'll import it into my testing site and see where things end up - that might reveal a difference in we have TNG setup?

eMail a zipped file to rogerkiwi@aol.com

Roger

[Philip Roy]

 I can't share my gedcom. Sorry, my site and contents are private.

I think possibly in helping, that maybe you're confusing us more (that's not a criticism) because I have gone back and looked at your images, and I note that with Page Title, the gedcom tag is "_PAG" and the field in Reunion is "Page Title". There is no Page Title field in my Reunion, which makes me think that maybe you created a custom field and tag...and that you are somehow mapping that in TNG to be the secondary title? Does that make sense? Gosh this is giving me a headache 😆

[Keith]

Well, this is very weird, but I have solved the issue for myself (though there would be much work to get this implemented and frankly, I'm not sure it's worth it).

While researching this issue, I found a reference (annoyingly, I can't find this reference again now) indicating that the Short Title uses the ABBR tag rather than TITL.

To test this theory, I added a field to Reunion called Short Title and assigned it to the ABBR tag (there was no existing field that had an ABBR tag in my system). Then, added it to source 27.

The output of the source now looks like this...

I then re-imported my GEDCOM to TNG, and low and behold, the Short Title is now populated.

Now, this does not answer why Roger's TNG is populating the short title without an ABBR tag. So, how your system is working is beyond me. 

This would also mean I would have to add this short title field to all my sources (no mean feat).

Also, If I look at my sources list in TNG as a list there doesn't seem to be much difference whether the short title is present or not.

Only S27 in the list below has a short title.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Keith

 

[Philip Roy]

Well I kinda suspected as much, but I was clearly googling the wrong things. I even tried reading through the Gedcom 7.0 specs and missed it.

I think your findings are probably correct and also what would be required to fix all the sources in Reunion. But as we say in New Zealand….yeah, nah. I’m not going to bother.

[Philip Roy]

I’m away from home for a few days, but this caught my eye…

https://www.reuniontalk.com/forum/using-older-versions-of-reunion/11667-source-field-updates

Basically it seems to be saying you could easily add the ABBR field to each of the source templates (like newspapers)…and then after you have, create an Automator script that will work its way through each source entry, opening it, copying the title value and pasting it into the ABBR field, so at least you’d have a quick way of populating the two fields?

I’ve been using ChatGPT to code a number of things for me and it’s brilliant at Automator scripts, so I’m thinking of…

• Making a backup of Reunion
• Adding ABBR into each source template 
• Recording myself via Automator, opening Source #1 and copying and pasting between fields 
• Giving the script to ChatGPT and asking it to tweak the script to run through all my sources (not just one) and then put that script back into Automator and fire it off
• Seeing the impact on Reunion and an import into TNG…and if the end result is even worth it 

If it works, I can provide the workable script and instructions here next week 😉

[Keith]

Fantastic! I look forward to hearing more about your progress on this. Have a great weekend.

[Philip Roy]

TL;DR - This post fixes things for TNG but not Reunion (I'm stuck with that bit)

PLEASE MAKE COMPLETE BACKUPS OF REUNION AND TNG BEFORE TRYING ANY OF THIS.

NOTE - I'm not planning on doing this myself. It seems too much work for the sake of adding short titles. AND...as you'll see, getting things back into Reunion proved unsuccessful.

So Reunion isn't AppleScript-able it ends out. The idea from that website was to record a screen action in AppleScript and then have that action repeated...but it doesn't really work and can't be shared...so I took a different approach.

If you can't hack Reunion, why not hack the GEDCOM file you exported from it? So I asked ChatGPT to create a script that you drop a GEDCOM file onto and it...

• Searches the GEDCOM for any line that ends in SOUR
• Checks the lines below it to see if there is one that contains TYPE
• Checks that a line below it to see if there is one that contains TITL

If all these requirements are met, then the script duplicates the line containing TITL but replaces TITL on that duplicated line with ABBR

In short, it's copying a source Title field to quickly create a Short Title field for each source.

Up to you if you want to use it. It only took 24 attempts to get the script working 😑

Here's what to do
=============

• Export a GEDCOM file from Reunion
• Download the zip file that I attach here and double-click on it to unzip it
• Double-click to open the AppleScript file that appears
• Choose to export the AppleScript file as an Application, with the settings you see in the image attached. This creates an application to use.

• Drag and drop the GEDOM file onto the droplet app (NOTE - It is going to update this file, not create a new file)
• You should also see a log file created that tells you how many entries got updated (ie, how many sources were updated)

 

What next? 1 - Use the file for fixing entries
===============================
It was interesting to see that my log file said it had updated 15 less sources than I had in the GEDCOM, so I opened it in TextEdit and searched for ABBR entries.

I found the sources that had not had an ABBR entry added, and noted they had issues that I needed to fix and hadn't spotted before. So this was a handy bonus benefit of trying this.

 

What next? 2 - Import into TNG
=======================
Import into TNG and you should get Short Titles entries for the sources that started this discussion off. It worked for me locally.

 

What I can't get working
==================
I was hoping that there was an easy way to get this newly updated GEDCOM file back into Reunion, but I am struggling. I thought that by going into Reunion and creating a field called "Short Title" using the GEDCOM tag ABBR, and by adding that Short Tile field to each of the source templates, that when I created a brand new Reunion family file and imported the 'tweaked' GEDOM file into that new family (I did this because you can't easily do a merge as you import into an existing family...but yes, you can do it later), that all the new Short Title/ABBR entries in the GEDCOM would appear in each of the source entries.

NOPE...and I can't figure out why.

It's as though Reunion is treating the new GEDCOM file like the old one. Maybe that's a caching thing? I don't know...but I can't figure out how to overcome it and get the updated sources to appear in Reunion with their show titles being displayed.....so that's the point that I am giving up.

GED_Insert_ABBR.applescript.zip

[Keith]

WOW! Thanks so much for going to all this effort to resolve the issue and for the very clear instructions. 

I have tried the script and all works well. In my case I had 166 entries added to the GEDCOM.

I don't want to risk anything on the Reunion side, so I'm not sure I'll do anything with regard to getting the GEDCOM back into Reunion.

Longer term, I will likely add the short title to Reunion sources manually, but that will be a longer-term project related to sorting my sources out.

 

Thanks again for your time spent on this issue. It certainly goes above and beyond any expectation.

Keith 

 

 

 

[Philip Roy]

All good. I had time as I am “in between jobs” as my mum used to say (aka, out of work) and it was an adventure. Really annoyed I can’t solve the Reunion thing, but I think I’m probably going to give up. I’m also probably not going to patch a ged file or start adding fields to Reunion. It’s never been an issue for me, so unless TNG suddenly stops working because of it, I’ll stick with what I have.

[Philip Roy]

WARNING - there are catches in what I am posting here. I did have issues (see later in the post)

I felt we were so close getting the amended GEDCOM back into Reunion that I sent Leister Productions an email to ask for help. They came back with a simple reply...

Quote

The problem is the use of the ABBR field. Reunion's GEDCOM import sees this field as something that would be created for display in lists as a preview.

Try a variation of ABBR like BREV or something and it should work.

 

So good news...changing the ABBR tag to BREV does indeed let you import the GEDCOM with new short titles into Reunion. Bad news...the BREV tag doesn't work with TNG.

So...final(?) solution to have everything set up to work for the future...

1. Stick with the approach discussed in this thread, using the AppleScript to make a GEDCOM that includes ABBR tags that imports into TNG...but...
2. Then change the GEDCOM file again to get it back into Reunion, and then make a simple final tweak in Reunion so you never have to worry about this in the future.

See the attached instructions (can't tell I work as an Instructional Designer can you?).

I've done it and now have Reunion with short titles, an ABBR tag and the ability to export a GEDCOM with a short title that imports into with TNG.

BUT!!!!

It does do some weird things...you'll have to change a lot of settings (just compare the settings in your old file with the settings in the new one) in the new Family File....and in my case, something went wrong and it defaulted all locations to one geo code. I am currently going through in Reunion and re geocoding all the places, but am stuck by the limit in Reunion that only lets me do 150 queries per 24 hours.

So be careful.

Getting ABBR GEDCOM into Reunion.pdf

[Philip Roy]

I did ask one final question to them...would changing the BREV tag in Reunion to ABBR cause any issues. I think in their response (where they use BREV) that they also mean with ABBR...

Quote

Since this field is actually redundant, you should go into Source Settings > Fields, select the "Short Title" / BREV field and check "Exclude from endnotes" - that will make the source preview and the reporting of this source look nicer.

I can't think of any other problems with doing this.

 

[Keith]

Once again you’ve gone way beyond expectation. Thanks so much for continuing the investigation and for providing such detailed instructions.

 

I’ll try this out and see how I get on. I do need to rework my sources anyway (and may ask for some guidance on best approach on the Reunion forum), so not sure how much harm I can do. Although, re geocoding places would be a pain.

 

i think we can finally put this to bed now, but thanks for hanging in their with me on this one.