Aspects of Gender/Sex etc

[Robin Richmond]

This topic is a spin-off from a TNG14beta posting about a label that was followed by a coupe of what I'll call philosophical or semantic posts which are TNG-related but that belong here rather than in the TNG14beta discussions list.

I'll hold off on ("off on", I love that) posting my thoughts to give the people who have posted email messages to the discussion a chance to repost those messages here. Then I'll either followup on those or modify this message

- Robin

[Katryne]

In France, genealogical research is based on written documents: civil status registers, censuses, notarial acts, wills, marriage contracts... But paper genealogy is as reliable as History with a capital letter, which is always questionable because of the propaganda spread by the powerful and the influential: History is a communication tool.

And history, without a capital letter, on the scale of the individual, on the scale of man, is also the same. The human filter disguises the truth, which will never be more than a mirage that can never be reached. Genealogy cannot be an exact science any more than history. There is no such thing as genealogical truth: it will only be the transcription of what our ancestors, our predecessors, have allowed to transpire, it is the study of the way they organized themselves in families, in the larger framework of society. Genealogy is a social science.

Admittedly, the Gedcom norm is quite strict, because of the religious doctrine and purpose that gave rise to it (baptize as many ancestors as possible to boost one's chances of heaven). But given the evolution of morals and especially of the freedom to publicly define one's person, I would see not two tags sex (sexe) and gender (genre), but only one which would correspond to the tag (sex) of the official Gedcom with these two evolutions:

- to be able to put something else than M, F or I (whatever you want)
- to be able to call this field in the TNG config as you want (gender or sex or other)

This would allow to respect the Gedcom standard while adapting to the evolutions of civilizations which have different rhythms in the world.

Below is the original text in French, which is quoted from the Introductory text of my village TNG site.

Citation

 

En France, la recherche généalogique se construit sur les écrits : les registres d'état civil, les recensements, les actes notariés, testaments, contrats de mariage ... Mais la généalogie de papier présente autant de fiabilité que l'Histoire avec une majuscule, toujours sujette à caution en raison de la propagande diffusée par les puissants et les influenceurs : l'Histoire est un outil de communication.

Et la petite histoire, sans majuscule, à l'échelle de l'individu, à l'échelle de l'homme, c'est bien pareil aussi. Le filtre humain travestit la vérité qui ne sera jamais qu'un mirage qu'on n'atteindra jamais. Pas plus que l'Histoire, la généalogie ne peut être une science exacte. Il n'existe pas vraiment de vérité généalogique : ce ne sera que la retranscription de ce que nos ancêtres, nos prédécesseurs, ont laissé transparaître, c'est l'étude de la façon dont ils s'organisaient en familles, dans le cadre plus large de la société. La généalogie est une science sociale.

Certes, la norme Gedcom est assez stricte, en raison de la doctrine et de l'objectif religieux qui l'ont engendrée. (Baptiser autant d''ancêtres que possible pour booster ses chances de paradis). Mais vu l'évolution des mœurs et surtout de la liberté de définir publiquement sa personne, je verrais bien non pas deux tags sex (sexe) et gender (genre), mais un seul qui correspondrait au tag (sex) du Gedcom officiel avec ces deux évolutions :

- pouvoir y mettre autre chose que M, F ou I (tout ce qu'on veut)
- pouvoir dans la config de TNG appeler ce champ comme on veut (genre ou sex ou autre)

Cela permettrait de respecter la norme Gedcom tout en s'adaptant aux évolutions des civilisations qui ont des rythmes différents de par le monde.

 

 

[fluffy82]

I would implement two separate facts (and hope that the official gedcom will keep this too) for the simple reason that they are not the same. If we can have both baptism and christening, residence and address, there should be a possibility to have sexy and gender as well.

Sex is physical, biological. It's in your genes and impossible to change. There's only male and female. Or unknown, of course, when speaking of an unidentified stillborn 200 years ago.

Gender is psychological. It's what people feel/think they are, what they want to be. It is not always the same as the biological sex, hence worth registering separately. That way there is no confusion for future researchers trying to find a birth certificate for whom they assume to be a man, but was actually born a woman.

[edglimited]

Confusion will still remain in some countries Tommy. Australia for example, you have the right to change your Sex from Male -> Female on your Birth Cert and vice versa. So future researchers (here) will still be flying blind.

[fluffy82]

33 minutes ago, edglimited said:

Confusion will still remain in some countries Tommy. Australia for example, you have the right to change your Sex from Male -> Female on your Birth Cert and vice versa. So future researchers (here) will still be flying blind.

I don't know how Australian registration works, but in Belgium you can do that but there will always be a mention that it has been changed and the date it changed (possibly with reference to the court order, as a sex change can only be done after approval by a judge).

[Newfloridian]

I agree with Fluffy82 here and would take it one step further. There are two ways of carrying out and reporting research I am a family historian and not a genealogist. Most of my research is presented in illustrated articles and not in trying to draw family trees. Genealogy is the study of genes (I don't actually bother with DNA tests - indeed most that I have come across don't even report perhaps one of the important traits for the family historian - inherited defects) I don't have any same sex marriages in my database but I could account for them and explain them in an article but not in a tree. Try adding a child from such a coupling - genealogy says you would need to know the sperm and egg donors.

My own research started with a family tragedy - the murder of a six year old boy in 1875 - the illegitimate son of my great grandmother. We do know where he is buried but what good would digging his bone up do, on the off chance we could get marrow or a tooth from him? Might confirm that he was the offspring from my great grandfather three years before they married.

Alan