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jhculbert

Template 15 - Different Views With Different Browsers

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jhculbert

I am using TNG v. 13.0.3 on my public site, here:  culbert.one-name.net
and also on my home computer.

On my public and home sites I have recently added additional information to the
home page that is entered for "Text 1-3 Titles and Paragraphs" on the
"Setup >> Configuration >> Template Settings" admin page.  This
information shows up on my public home page in the bottom blue-green
area, but only using Firefox, not Safari.

However, on my home computer, with the same information entered,
neither the bottom blue-green area nor the text shows up using either browser.

What controls the view of this bottom blue-green area and text besides
the entries on the "Setup >> Configuration >> Template Settings" admin
page? 

Or, could something with browser settings be interfering? 

But, if so, why the difference between public and home views using the same browser?

I attach four screenshots, with the image titles indicating the sources. 

The Firefox_Public_Site_View is the only one that displays and functions correctly.

I posted this message to the tngusers forum, but there have been no replies.

Thanks!

Jim Culbert

Firefox_Home_Site_View_Feb2022.png

Firefox_Public_Site_View_Feb2022.png

Safari_Home_Site_View_Feb2022.png

Safari_Public_Site_View_Feb2022.png

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Philip Roy

So first of all, I'm seeing everything with Safari and Firefox...so all seems fine to me.

When you say "home" site...do you mean a local copy running on your Mac? If so (and this is a guess) is the php version the same etc. Are they "like for like"...that might explain it for some reason...but it shouldn't.

Have you made any modifications to the template? If so, if you reverse them, does that means things are the same? That shouldn't impact only one site version, but it's worth exploring. I'm just wondering if you have some malformed template change that is impacting it...but again, that should cause issues on both versions.

Oh and you may be aware...but the Project Overview link is broken...no PDF

How do you make sure your live site and local site are the same?

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Philip Roy

Don't think so...Jim is saying in some instances there is no footer...not that it's badly aligned? Check the 1st and 3rd images...unless I misinterpreted the posting?

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edglimited

Sorry didn't notice the position of the scroll bar at the bottom. The 2nd and 4th, would be his Public Site then. 1st and 3rd from his Home Site.

Would be interesting to know, what Jim is running on his Home Comp. Win or Mac. Mac comes with PHP installed, Win is optional, needs to be downloaded.

The Public Site (Webhost) is more likely L.A.M.P based, but that's no guarantee, until Jim confirms (if he knows). as evident by pics 2 and 4..

Hence no problems with the footer display etc. Don't think it's a Browser issue, like you I viewed across several Browsers, everything was good.

More likely it's an issue on his PC and how he has TNG setup.

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Philip Roy

Oh hold on...I immediately assumed it was a Mac, as Safari for Windows was discontinued years ago...so Jim, if you're using Safari on a PC, don't. That would be one of the issues.

Drew...the images are really well named (thanks Jim, that was awesome) so the public sites both display the footer, but the Safari one is missing text.

* Firefox_Public_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer displayed with all text

* Safari_Public_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer displayed, text only partially displaying

* Firefox_Home_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer missing

* Safari_Home_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer missing

Note that not all Macs have php installed...and it's not as though you can easily access it unless you know what you are doing (I use MAMP instead). Monterey (according to a quick Google) does not in fact ship with php - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/681907

I have Monterey and use MAMP with it...and intend to do so again when Apple announce the shiny new Mac I'm waiting for at the end of this week 😉

 

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jhculbert
3 hours ago, Philip Roy said:

So first of all, I'm seeing everything with Safari and Firefox...so all seems fine to me.

When you say "home" site...do you mean a local copy running on your Mac? If so (and this is a guess) is the php version the same etc. Are they "like for like"...that might explain it for some reason...but it shouldn't.

Have you made any modifications to the template? If so, if you reverse them, does that means things are the same? That shouldn't impact only one site version, but it's worth exploring. I'm just wondering if you have some malformed template change that is impacting it...but again, that should cause issues on both versions.

Oh and you may be aware...but the Project Overview link is broken...no PDF

How do you make sure your live site and local site are the same?

Thanks Philip.

I don't understand how your Safari and Firefox views can be the same, yet different than mine.  But, maybe it is in the browser settings somehow....

My home site is a local TNG copy on my home computer.  I assume the TNG version is the same, but don't know how to tell.  I have no way to check if the php versions are the same, as I don't administratively control my public site.  I could ask, however, if this could make a difference.

I have no mods installed on either template. 

Thanks for letting me know my project overview link is broken.  I'll check that out.  Media are a pain to coordinate between home and public sites, especially when I make a change.

I upload new backup data files using FTP from my home computer to the public site periodically.

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jhculbert
1 hour ago, edglimited said:

Sorry didn't notice the position of the scroll bar at the bottom. The 2nd and 4th, would be his Public Site then. 1st and 3rd from his Home Site.

Would be interesting to know, what Jim is running on his Home Comp. Win or Mac. Mac comes with PHP installed, Win is optional, needs to be downloaded.

The Public Site (Webhost) is more likely L.A.M.P based, but that's no guarantee, until Jim confirms (if he knows). as evident by pics 2 and 4..

Hence no problems with the footer display etc. Don't think it's a Browser issue, like you I viewed across several Browsers, everything was good.

More likely it's an issue on his PC and how he has TNG setup.

Hi, I'm using MAMP 5.7 on my home computer.

Jim

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Philip Roy

Do have any Safari extensions or ad or content blockers installed in any browser? And have you added any sites to them? For example, you may have added the public site to a content blocker, but not the local site (I don't like the word "Home" as home is something very different in website terms...so I'm sticking with "local" for your MAMP version.

In Safari, ON BOTH SITE VERSION go up to the URL and right-click (this is available on newer versions of Safari) and choose settings (I'll attach an image of me doing that for this forum). Check they are the same for BOTH VERSIONS OF THE SITE. I'm emphasising there as you really are going to have to keep going until you find the difference.

Given the you say that you don't administer the live site...I'm assuming you mean someone set it up for you but you do login to the admin area of the TNG Live site?

How do you make sure both sites are the same if you have someone else running the hosted version? Do you literally make a change on the live site and then make the same one on the local version? That could easily mean you've made an accidental settings difference between sites that will be very hard to track down. Can you explain a bit more please about the process you follow?

Screen Shot 2022-03-07 at 2.01.16 PM.png

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Philip Roy

Eeek...stop the press! The Safari view and Firefox view of the live site are NOT the same for me. Sorry...when I first looked today I just went "Yep...there's a footer"...but later we got into the fact that the Safari view is missing text in the footer and that is what I am seeing also.

I'm going to grab the source code and put it into Dreamweaver for a bit...I'm convinced there's a stray HTML tag somewhere as this is a classic example of one browser being a bit more lenient than another I think. I'll come back to you.

Edited by Philip Roy
test typo updated to text

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Philip Roy

OK..there's some basic HTML coding errors...

<Font color=red>

Should be in two places...

<Font color="red">

If you go to the Safari version of the live site and hover over where text will be displayed, your mouse will tell you that there are links there...they just aren't show up in the right colour. That lead me to discovering that this file templates/template15/css/templatestyle.css had been altered, when compared to the original template file.

It has the following colour commented out....

/* link: normal links, active: links in use */
a:link, a:active, div.icons a {
	/* color : #063E53; */
}

Try changing that to....

/* link: normal links, active: links in use */
a:link, a:active, div.icons a {
color : #FFFFFF;
}

...and see if that works.

I'm still curious as to how you work on a local copy of the site when someone else manages the site version. How and when do you know if they alter a file? And how do you get that copy? How do you update your live site? It sounds like it might be a bit of work for you.

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Chris Lloyd
4 hours ago, jhculbert said:

My home site is a local TNG copy on my home computer.  I assume the TNG version is the same, but don't know how to tell.  I have no way to check if the php versions are the same, as I don't administratively control my public site.  I could ask, however, if this could make a difference.

Look at the footer on a public page for both sites if you can access the admin of your public site.

image.png

If you can access the admin look at the top:

image.png

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Philip Roy

Oh and login to TNG admin, go to set up and then click on the Diagnostics tab to learn lots about your hosting setup.

2F49EC4C-D6E0-421D-A4C1-4439A1FFC125.jpeg

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jhculbert
12 hours ago, Philip Roy said:

OK..there's some basic HTML coding errors...


<Font color=red>

Should be in two places...


<Font color="red">

If you go to the Safari version of the live site and hover over where text will be displayed, your mouse will tell you that there are links there...they just aren't show up in the right colour. That lead me to discovering that this file templates/template15/css/templatestyle.css had been altered, when compared to the original template file.

It has the following colour commented out....


/* link: normal links, active: links in use */
a:link, a:active, div.icons a {
	/* color : #063E53; */
}

Try changing that to....


/* link: normal links, active: links in use */
a:link, a:active, div.icons a {
color : #FFFFFF;
}

...and see if that works.

I'm still curious as to how you work on a local copy of the site when someone else manages the site version. How and when do you know if they alter a file? And how do you get that copy? How do you update your live site? It sounds like it might be a bit of work for you.

Thanks, Philip.

The main issue is with my local site, that shows no footers.

I don't have access to my public site's templatestyle.css file to make the change you suggest.  See below.

But, I can ask if that can be done, but am not sure it can.  Ses below.

I don't understand the intent your continued question about how I work a local version while someone else manages my public site.  I simply copy my home version backup data files to my public site using FTP.  I upload any new media from my home computer to my public site using FTP.  I don't have admin access to anything above the backups folder on my public site.  My public is a unique Guild of One Name Studies installation of TNG, where over 250 TNG site operate using only one installed package of TNG.  No one site owner can change the admin settings because that would change it for all.  Darrin knows about this situation.

Jim

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jhculbert
10 hours ago, Chris Lloyd said:

Look at the footer on a public page for both sites if you can access the admin of your public site.

image.png

If you can access the admin look at the top:

image.png

I can confirm that both my public and local sites are using TNG v. 13.0.3.

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jhculbert
9 hours ago, Philip Roy said:

Oh and login to TNG admin, go to set up and then click on the Diagnostics tab to learn lots about your hosting setup.

2F49EC4C-D6E0-421D-A4C1-4439A1FFC125.jpeg

I don't have access to this on my public site, but can find out if it is important to this discussion.

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Philip Roy
6 hours ago, jhculbert said:

I don't understand the intent your continued question about how I work a local version while someone else manages my public site.  I simply copy my home version backup data files to my public site using FTP.  I upload any new media from my home computer to my public site using FTP.  I don't have admin access to anything above the backups folder on my public site.  My public is a unique Guild of One Name Studies installation of TNG, where over 250 TNG site operate using only one installed package of TNG.  No one site owner can change the admin settings because that would change it for all.  Darrin knows about this situation.

Easy...because you started this thread by saying this....

Quote

On my public and home sites I have recently added additional information to the home page that is entered for "Text 1-3 Titles and Paragraphs" on the "Setup >> Configuration >> Template Settings" admin page

If you don't have TNG admin access to your live site, how did those changes happen? If you tweak a setting in the your local site, how do you tweak it on the live site? If you don't have access to the TNG admin on your live site, then we can't ask you to compare and contrast settings with the local version. When you add a person locally, how do you add them on the live site? I'm trying to see if the answer is "I just go through the whole process all over again"...because that's a goldmine for conflicts in settings and info.

UPDATE - Wow....I really should read better. I'm assuming that this is done using the backup approach? I don't use TNG's backup system at all, so I guess that's how all changes are applied? I'm going to delete some of my post after this update.

And yes, I'm ignoring your desktop issue at the moment...I'm trying to see if we can point out issues with the live site that may then help with the local one.

There are some odd things about the site...like the footer (see image) that are hard to see where they are coming from.

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 10.56.12 AM.png

Edited by Philip Roy
Updated as I had re-read Jim's post

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edglimited
7 hours ago, jhculbert said:

I don't have access to this on my public site, but can find out if it is important to this discussion.

Hi Jim, you are 100% correct, you don't and wont have access to the Admin area or the CP (Control Panel), of the Public Site..

As I commented previously, (below) the issue is with your Home Site, not the Public Site run by the GOONS. There, your'e simply a Contributor or an Editor. You will need to sort out the bug. I would also suggest, simply forgetting about the GOONS Site, it's not under your'e control. You can recommend to them, changes or edits, but don't hold your breath.

 

"Don't think it's a Browser issue, like you I viewed across several Browsers, everything was good. More likely it's an issue on his PC and how he has TNG setup".

 

When I viewed the GOONS Site with the two Browsers I have, (see above) there was no issue at all. Nothing was missing or out of place..!!!

All the information required for anyone to work out was provided in the 2nd and 4th photo's, that you posted (many thanks for that).

A quick visit to their Site, (GOONS) would also have shown the following information;

the-members-websites-program

"You can have your own stand-alone TNG site, but you will become responsible for its set-up and upgrading. The project team will not be able to assist you if things go wrong. You should be aware you will not have access to our server’s cPanel".

 

Screenshot from 2022-03-08 08:57:25.png

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Philip Roy
46 minutes ago, edglimited said:

the issue is with your Home Site, not the Public Site run by the GOONS. There, your'e simply a Contributor or an Editor. You will need to sort out the bug. I would also suggest, simply forgetting about the GOONS Site, it's not under your'e control.

OK...I think that's where we disagree. So what if the issue is sorted locally? If it's a template issue, every indication is that Jim can't do anything about that. If he's not able to update a part of the template for his hosted version, then any 'fixes' he makes locally will never be able to be applied to the hosted version as he has no access to the files.

Jim....still curious....how did you get a local install of TNG if you've bought a hosted version? For example...how can you be sure that the template files for Template15 on the hosting site, are exactly the same as the template files you have on your Mac?

If they answer is that you can't, as you aren't able to access those files or get copies of them...then we're going to be trying to resolve issues with two different versions of the template? I know..I'm fixated on this, but I'm still trying to understand that process. To me, one of the sites has to be the Master site...and that appears to have to be the live one, as you can't change TNG php (etc) files on it. So how do you make sure that all the php and CSS files etc, on your Mac, match with what is on the hosted version?

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Philip Roy

OK, back to basics...

Jim, I went snooping and I found two sites that are hosted that match with your template...

https://beckerleg.one-name.net

https://berkeley.one-name.net

BUT...what I also realised....is that in their footers, they have text. In your footer (that I can't actually see the text of in Safari...and now realise I can only see some text in Firefox), you just have links...so could you post in the code for what you entered into the TNG Template settings for the boxes that make up the sections of the footer...as I think you might have some incorrect HTML there....or again, it's a CSS issue that you don't control.

Just take a look at the following two images....one is of the footer in Firefox...but the other is the same footer in Firefox, when I drag the mouse over to highlight the fact that there is even more text not showing due to colouring.

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 12.49.19 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 12.49.34 PM.png

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jhculbert
17 hours ago, Philip Roy said:

Easy...because you started this thread by saying this....

If you don't have TNG admin access to your live site, how did those changes happen? If you tweak a setting in the your local site, how do you tweak it on the live site? If you don't have access to the TNG admin on your live site, then we can't ask you to compare and contrast settings with the local version. When you add a person locally, how do you add them on the live site? I'm trying to see if the answer is "I just go through the whole process all over again"...because that's a goldmine for conflicts in settings and info.

UPDATE - Wow....I really should read better. I'm assuming that this is done using the backup approach? I don't use TNG's backup system at all, so I guess that's how all changes are applied? I'm going to delete some of my post after this update.

And yes, I'm ignoring your desktop issue at the moment...I'm trying to see if we can point out issues with the live site that may then help with the local one.

There are some odd things about the site...like the footer (see image) that are hard to see where they are coming from.

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 10.56.12 AM.png

Philip,

I started out by saying what?  Please complete your thoughts if they are import to this issue.

I have no idea what changes you speak of.  I am sure the Guild's TNG Administrators have made changes that are different than my local TNG, even though we are both using the same TNG version.  I don't believe I have any issues with my public site.  Using the Firefox browser I can access the home page footer links.  My curiosity is why Safari is different, and also why they don't display on my local home page.  This is not a deal breaker for my local installation, as I don't need to use the links locally.

Like I said previously, I copy via FTP my latest data files from the backups folder on my computer to my public site, then do a restore to the public site.

The 0004ac is the file designation the Guild uses to separate out the data [backups] and media [collections] for each of the 250+ TNG users.

Jim

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jhculbert
17 hours ago, edglimited said:

Hi Jim, you are 100% correct, you don't and wont have access to the Admin area or the CP (Control Panel), of the Public Site..

As I commented previously, (below) the issue is with your Home Site, not the Public Site run by the GOONS. There, your'e simply a Contributor or an Editor. You will need to sort out the bug. I would also suggest, simply forgetting about the GOONS Site, it's not under your'e control. You can recommend to them, changes or edits, but don't hold your breath.

 

"Don't think it's a Browser issue, like you I viewed across several Browsers, everything was good. More likely it's an issue on his PC and how he has TNG setup".

 

When I viewed the GOONS Site with the two Browsers I have, (see above) there was no issue at all. Nothing was missing or out of place..!!!

All the information required for anyone to work out was provided in the 2nd and 4th photo's, that you posted (many thanks for that).

A quick visit to their Site, (GOONS) would also have shown the following information;

the-members-websites-program

"You can have your own stand-alone TNG site, but you will become responsible for its set-up and upgrading. The project team will not be able to assist you if things go wrong. You should be aware you will not have access to our server’s cPanel".

 

Screenshot from 2022-03-08 08:57:25.png

Sorry, but I disagree with your observations about my issue.  My posted screenshots DO show what I get using my Firefox and Safari browsers for my public site's home page, and THEY ARE DIFFERENT!   Firefox is fine.  With Safari, there are no links in the home page footer.  How can this be?

I appreciate that you have investigated the GOONS' Members' Websites Program, thus you have a better understanding than others of what I am working with.

Jim

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jhculbert
16 hours ago, Philip Roy said:

OK, back to basics...

Jim, I went snooping and I found two sites that are hosted that match with your template...

https://beckerleg.one-name.net

https://berkeley.one-name.net

BUT...what I also realised....is that in their footers, they have text. In your footer (that I can't actually see the text of in Safari...and now realise I can only see some text in Firefox), you just have links...so could you post in the code for what you entered into the TNG Template settings for the boxes that make up the sections of the footer...as I think you might have some incorrect HTML there....or again, it's a CSS issue that you don't control.

Just take a look at the following two images....one is of the footer in Firefox...but the other is the same footer in Firefox, when I drag the mouse over to highlight the fact that there is even more text not showing due to colouring.

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 12.49.19 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 12.49.34 PM.png

Bingo.  This is the issue as I see it.  The only difference between what you see and what I get is I cannot find the links in using the Safari browser when just hovering my cursor over the footer.

Here is the template code I use:

For the My Ancestors Tree link: <a href="https://culbert.one-name.net/pedigree.php?personID=I00001&tree=Ancestors">Link: My Ancestors Tree</a>

For the Mahoney Tree link:  <a href="https://culbert.one-name.net/pedigree.php?personID=I00001&tree=Mahoney">Link: My Wife's Ancestors Tree</a>

For the two Individual Lists links:  <a href="https://culbert.one-name.net/search.php?mybool=AND&nr=50&tree=Culbert&branch=">Culbert Tree Individuals</a>
<a href="https://culbert.one-name.net/search.php?mybool=AND&nr=50&tree=Other&branch=">Variants Tree Individuals</a>

Jim

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Philip Roy
6 hours ago, jhculbert said:

I started out by saying what?  Please complete your thoughts if they are import to this issue.

Sorry, no idea why it left out the text I had entered...you has said..."On my public and home sites I have recently added additional information to the home page that is entered for "Text 1-3 Titles and Paragraphs" on the "Setup >> Configuration >> Template Settings" admin page."...but at the same time you were saying that you didn't have TNG admin access....so I couldn't figure out how you would make that change on the live site. It sounds like you do have TNG admin access?

6 hours ago, jhculbert said:

I have no idea what changes you speak of.  I am sure the Guild's TNG Administrators have made changes that are different than my local TNG, even though we are both using the same TNG version.  I don't believe I have any issues with my public site.  Using the Firefox browser I can access the home page footer links.  My curiosity is why Safari is different, and also why they don't display on my local home page.  This is not a deal breaker for my local installation, as I don't need to use the links locally.

Can you appreciate that this makes solving issues hard? First...it means that the issue locally could be because you have altered a php or CSS file or that it at least doesn't match with a live file. We don't have access to those altered files on the live site, so we don't know if that's causing the issue. I was trying to find out how you got copies of altered php and CSS files from the live site...and the answer is....you don't....so it means that if it's a template issue, we're going in blind.

And, if one of us recommends a fix by altering a template file, your response is going to be that you can't do that. So the data is the same for both sites, the settings are the same, the media is the same...but if a php or CSS file has been altered, who knows. Can you see how that makes things tricky?

Edited by Philip Roy
corrected the phrase "going in blind"

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Philip Roy
3 hours ago, jhculbert said:

Sorry, but I disagree with your observations about my issue.  My posted screenshots DO show what I get using my Firefox and Safari browsers for my public site's home page, and THEY ARE DIFFERENT!   Firefox is fine.  With Safari, there are no links in the home page footer.  How can this be?

Sorry, my turn to disagree...here's Safari and I have dragged the mouse over the footer. As I have said before, the links are there...they are just now showing. Give me 10 min and I am going to look at your actual HTML that you put into the templates.

My description of your images said...(with a correction added)

 * Firefox_Public_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer displayed with all text text only partially displaying

* Safari_Public_Site_View_Feb2022 = footer displayed, text only partially displaying

Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 8.21.35 AM.png

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