Different issues - is that okay?

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

SOLVED. Finally it makes sense and I think I know what is going on

Thanks to everybody who joined in. I have learned a lot.

<hr>

Hi there - and happy new year to everyone in this lovely community!

I hope it is okay to ask more questions in one thread. If not please tell me.

(I have not installed the latest update from Darrin yet.)

1. Problems with stillborn: I use Legacy and register stillborn children with the correct type, which in Danish is "Dødfødt". TNG does not show this information. Why? When I check the GEDCOM it says "2 TYPE Dødfødt" for example for this person: https://tng.stegemueller.dk/getperson.php?personID=I1935&tree=HBS. Of course TNG does not understand Danish! When I check tng_eventtypes it shows that the event is an EVEN and not marked with the gedcom code STIL

Does this mean there is an error in Legacy because it should return the GEDCOM code STIL?

How can I fix the problem? Could I make search and replace in the GEDCOM? In case, what should it look like? But I make new imports fairly often so it would be extra work each time.

2. Share-button does not show icons: Earlier the "Share-button" in the menu line, did show icon for Facebook and a couple of others. These icons do not show up any more. How do I get them back?

3. Number of Custom Event Types: I have 79 event types, but I think the number of times they are used is much to small. I.e. ADOP seems not to be used at all (has a "0"). But I am adopted myself so there should at least be "1". The GEDCOM file has this "2 TYPE Adopteret". If I search relationship to father in Legacy I have 13 with the eventtype "Adopteret". Again is it a problem in Legacy?

Another example is "MARB" (which I have translated to "Publication of the banns"). That is also "0" but I know I have many of them.

Of course I have not been straight using the event types for all the 18 years I have done genealogy because the first years I had no idea I would make a website with TNG. But now I think I have a fairly good understanding of how a database works

Is there something I have completely misunderstood?

[theKiwi]

Are these missing events showing in the TNG Admin ------> Custom Events screen as "Accept" or "Reject"?

If it's Reject, change it to Accept, Save that, and then import the GEDCOM file again.

Roger

[Rob Severijns]

Hi Hanne,

Happy New Year top you too.

As far as I can see STIL is not a a valid GEDCOM 5.5.1 tag (GEDCOM-Tags) STILLBORN is mentioned though in ged551-5.pdf) so could it be that this is something specific for Legecy or do I misunderstand something?

Rob

 

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

19 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

Are these missing events showing in the TNG Admin ------> Custom Events screen as "Accept" or "Reject"?

Hi Roger

They are all "Accept"

../Hanne

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

47 minutes ago, Rob Severijns said:

As far as I can see STIL is not a a valid GEDCOM 5.5.1 tag (GEDCOM-Tags) STILLBORN is mentioned though in ged551-5.pdf) so could it be that this is something specific for Legecy or do I misunderstand something?

Rob

 

Thanks Rob!

Oh I don't know/remember why I think it was called "STIL". I read it somewhere, but I now can't find it again.

One of us misunderstands something Probably me...

As far as I can see Legacy does not return neighter STIL or STILLBORN but "2 TYPE Dødfødt" in the GEDCOM - and TNG does not have a chance to understand this Danish word. Shouldn't Legacy return one of the two (STIL or STILLBORN)? I search with Notepad++ and can't find STILLBORN at all.

I have the feeling something is wrong somewhere.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Hanne
Missing word "one"

[Rob Severijns]

Hanne,

My knowledge of GEDCOM isn't that great but something is wrong somewhere and unfortunately I can't help you any further with that.

I have a few stillborn in my familytree too. Not marked as an event but as a remark linked to birth or death.

No idea where else to put it.

Rob

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

1 minute ago, Rob Severijns said:

My knowledge of GEDCOM isn't that great but something is wrong somewhere and unfortunately I can't help you any further with that.

I have a few stillborn in my familytree too. Not marked as an event but as a remark linked to birth or death.

No idea where else to put it.

Rob

Thanks Rob

What a pity.

Do you think it is okay to ask Darrin directly? Of course he can't be an expert in all genealogy programs - but the Danish expert in Legacy (of course) does not have a high knowledge about GEDCOM or TNG. So I am "in between two chairs" (a Danish expression just translated directly. I don't know if it makes sense in English).

[Rob Severijns]

I would wait a while.

The question is only a few hours old and I understand that this looks like ages

Others in the Forum might know the answer.

Rob

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

Just now, Rob Severijns said:

The question is only a few hours old and I understand that this looks like ages

Rob

Rob

You are perfectly right. And I guess it is correct: It is an old, old issue!

../Hanne

[Rob Severijns]

BTW,

Me being Dutch perfectly understand your "being in between two chairs"

 

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

4 minutes ago, Rob Severijns said:

BTW,

Me being Dutch perfectly understand your "being in between two chairs"

 

Great!

[RickM]

As I am currently looking at things related to GEDCOM in another Post, I shall go and see what is what with Still Born..

But as Rob says, there is a chance other more talented folks may chime in with an appropriate answer..

[bhemph]

Hanne,
      I use birth date and death date the same day and then in cause of death have "Stillborn - strangled by umbilical cord" or whatever noted reason there is.

2)  Admin > Setup >> Configuration >> General Settings > Site Design and Definition > Show Share Link (Yes/No) is where you usually change that setting.

3)  Is your TYPE Adopted under the Individual (0 @I007051@ INDI) or Family (0 @F10122@ FAM) in the GEDCOM?  An example section of the GEDCOM for these and the Stillborn would make it easier to understand what is happening, or what is intended with the format that is being used.  For some of mine that were just a little non following the standard, I had to modify the GEDCOM converter mod just a little bit to get my intended changes to import the way I wanted.  So I have a process of export GEDCOM, manually edit 5 names that are too long for the genealogy program, upload to server, run the converter, import the converted file, and run the secondary processes.  It might be another step, but helps me to know that the data does what I want.

Brent

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

1 hour ago, bhemph said:

Hanne,
      I use birth date and death date the same day and then in cause of death have "Stillborn - strangled by umbilical cord" or whatever noted reason there is.

2)  Admin > Setup >> Configuration >> General Settings > Site Design and Definition > Show Share Link (Yes/No) is where you usually change that setting.

3)  Is your TYPE Adopted under the Individual (0 @I007051@ INDI) or Family (0 @F10122@ FAM) in the GEDCOM?  An example section of the GEDCOM for these and the Stillborn would make it easier to understand what is happening, or what is intended with the format that is being used.  For some of mine that were just a little non following the standard, I had to modify the GEDCOM converter mod just a little bit to get my intended changes to import the way I wanted.  So I have a process of export GEDCOM, manually edit 5 names that are too long for the genealogy program, upload to server, run the converter, import the converted file, and run the secondary processes.  It might be another step, but helps me to know that the data does what I want.

Brent

Hi Brent

Thanks for your reply

1) "I use birth date and death date the same day and then in cause of death have "Stillborn - strangled by umbilical cord" or whatever noted reason there is.". That is a good solution. I do the same with the dates and i could add cause of death the same way as you do.

2) "Show Share Link:" is set to "Yes", has always been and the word "Share" is shown in the menu line, what I miss is the icons.

3) Here I don't quite know what you mean - but I'll try to answer.

I can not find (0 @I007051@ INDI) or Family (0 @F10122@ FAM) in the GEDCOM, so I try with other examples.

As I am writing this I realize something about B STILLBORN: Though I enter the code for stillborn in Legacy that program does not return anything about stillborn. Eventually see the screenshot. "Status for barn: Dødfødt" Danish for = "Status is stillborn"

A Adopted - example with my self:

https://tng.stegemueller.dk/getperson.php?personID=I1&tree=HBS

0 @I1@ INDI
1 NAME Hanne Baunsgård /Stegemüller/
2 GIVN Hanne Baunsgård
2 SURN Stegemüller
1 SEX F
1 BIRT
2 DATE 23 Okt. 1963
2 PLAC Usserød Sygehus, Hørsholm Sogn, Lynge-Kronborg Herred, Frederiksborg Amt, Denmark
2 SOUR @S69@
3 PAGE Hørsholm, 3-190-34, fol. 261, nr. 143
3 QUAY 4
3 DATA
4 TEXT [Arkivlovens § 23]. (Senere streget ud og erstattet af Hanne Baunsgaar
5 CONC d Stegemüller). Datter af [Arkivlovens § 23]
5 CONC Adoptionsforældre: appreturmester Jørgen Stegemüller, fød
5 CONC t i Lyngby Sogn, Københavns Amt, 17. maj 1922 og hustru Jyt
5 CONC te Baunsgaard Kristensen, født i Blåhøj Sogn, Vejle Amt, 7
5 CONC . maj 1935. Park Alle 4, Skjern. Borgerligt ægteforenede fo
5 CONC r sognefogeden i Brande: 22. oktober 1955. Navngivet den 11
5 CONC . december 1965 af adoptivfaderen til Skjern Sogn.
5 CONT
5 CONT [Arkivlovens § 23] folkeregister Kommunes folkeregister,
5 CONC : 29. oktober 1963. Medd. om navngivning fra Skje
5 CONC rn Sogn af 21. december 1965.
5 CONT
5 CONT
5 CONT Apdoption ved Kongelig bevilling udstedt 10. j
5 CONC uni 1965 ved Ringkøbing Amt, jornal nr. 36-25-65. Meddelt f
5 CONC ra Ringkøbing Amt 10. Juni 1965. Slægtsnavnet rettet ved ad
5 CONC optionen.
1 CHR
2 DATE 1 Okt. 1966
2 PLAC Odden Kirke, Odden Sogn, Ods Herred, Holbæk Amt, Denmark
2 SOUR @S25@
3 QUAY 4
2 SOUR @S69@
3 PAGE Odden, 3-373-11, fol. 87, litra G
3 QUAY 4
3 DATA
4 TEXT Hanne Baunsgård Stegemüller. Datter af Appreturmester Jørge
5 CONC n Stegemüller, født i Brede, Lyngby Sogn 17. maj 1922 og hu
5 CONC stru Jytte Baunsgård Kristensen, født i Blåhøj Sogn, Vejl
5 CONC e Amt 7. maj 1935, Park Allé 4, Skjern. Borgerligt ægtefore
5 CONC net for sognefogeden i Brande By 22. Oktober 1955. Sognepræ
5 CONC sten, Odden Kirke. Meddelelse om dåben til fødesogn, navngi
5 CONC vningssogn og folkeregister 1. oktober 1966.
2 NOTE @CI1@
1 DEAT Y
1 ANCI HIGH
1 _STAT Never Married
1 SOUR @SAuth@
1 EVEN Jøgen Stegemüller og Jytte Baunsgaard Kristensen
2 TYPE Adopteret
2 DATE 10 Jun. 1965
2 PLAC Ringkøbing Amt
2 SOUR @S27@
3 PAGE Adoptionssagen
3 QUAY 4

<hr>

B - STILLBORN:

The following example comes from this individual: https://tng.stegemueller.dk/getperson.php?personID=I4538&tree=HBS

1 FAMC @F1031@
0 @I4538@ INDI
1 NAME Bjerregaard /Nielsen/
2 GIVN Bjerregaard
2 SURN Nielsen
1 SEX F
1 BIRT
2 DATE 3 Apr. 1942
2 PLAC Ris, Givskud Sogn, Nørvang Herred, Vejle Amt, Denmark
1 DEAT
2 DATE 3 Apr. 1942
2 PLAC Ris, Givskud Sogn, Nørvang Herred, Vejle Amt, Denmark
1 SOUR @SAuth@
1 _UID 5AE63039DFF64C63987F9BA6B68E8792E253
1 CHAN
2 DATE 16 Dec. 2021
3 TIME 00:03
1 FAMC @F1031@
0 @I4539@ INDI
1 NAME Lea Bjerregaard /Nielsen/
2 GIVN Lea Bjerregaard
2 SURN Nielsen
1 SEX F
1 FAMC @F1031@
0 @I4540@ INDI

Edited January 6, 2022 by Hanne
Tried to show HTML Horizontal Line

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

7 hours ago, RickM said:

As I am currently looking at things related to GEDCOM in another Post, I shall go and see what is what with Still Born..

But as Rob says, there is a chance other more talented folks may chime in with an appropriate answer..

Thank you very much RickM.

That is very kind of you.

[RickM]

Hanne,

I understand GEDCOM NOT AT ALL..  Overall it seems that different genealogy software, process or interpret GEDCOM files VERY differently. Perhaps when I reach 70, I will understand how to deal with GEDCOM files better.

This is what I found in the two 'current' versions. So what the meaning is would be for another like @Darrin Lythgoe to explain..

In GEDCOM 5.5.5, which I understand as being a cleaned up version of 5.5.1 .

LDS 7.0.1 GEDCOM

As a Wild Guess STILLBORN is supported at this time as an "AGE AT EVENT" type input.. I'm not sure TNG supports "Age at event". I do note that 5.5.5 says STILLBORN and others will be removed at a later version..

And as for versions.. Hmmmm I'm watching that now, too!! Head Hurts for sure!!

I know it is not much, however we still await smarter than I folks to chime in.. Another interesting post which has piqued my interest.

 

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

27 minutes ago, RickM said:

Hanne,

I understand GEDCOM NOT AT ALL..  Overall it seems that different genealogy software, process or interpret GEDCOM files VERY differently. Perhaps when I reach 70, I will understand how to deal with GEDCOM files better.

This is what I found in the two 'current' versions. So what the meaning is would be for another like @Darrin Lythgoe to explain..

In GEDCOM 5.5.5, which I understand as being a cleaned up version of 5.5.1 .
 

LDS 7.0.1 GEDCOM

 

As a Wild Guess STILLBORN is supported at this time as an "AGE AT EVENT" type input.. I'm not sure TNG supports "Age at event". I do note that 5.5.5 says STILLBORN and others will be removed at a later version..

And as for versions.. Hmmmm I'm watching that now, too!! Head Hurts for sure!!

I know it is not much, however we still await smarter than I folks to chime in.. Another interesting post which has piqued my interest.

 

Thanks a lot RickM!

I am not sure I understand at all too (I mean: I think I understand as little as you do).

But one thing I do understand: TNG will never have a chance to show something that Legacy does not spit out in the GEDCOM code. That must be logic even to me, who does not know GEDCOM Legacy tells nothing about "Dødfødt" at all. It does not even spit out the Danish word, which means there is nothing to run a search and replace for (maybe it is called "with" - I hope you understand my poor English anyway).

I'll keep this thread open for some days hoping some geniuses will pass by, and then I think I'll write to Legacy directly, as to me this seems to be a Legacy issue? I am all ready preparing an email to them about other subjects.

[theKiwi]

1 hour ago, RickM said:

As a Wild Guess STILLBORN is supported at this time as an "AGE AT EVENT" type input.. I'm not sure TNG supports "Age at event". I do note that 5.5.5 says STILLBORN and others will be removed at a later version..

 

I wouldn't pay much attention to what 5.5.5 says - it was published NOT by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. FamilySearch have published GEDCOM 7 as "FamilySearch GEDCOM", and will continue to evolve it under that name.

Roger

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

9 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

I wouldn't pay much attention to what 5.5.5 says - it was published NOT by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. FamilySearch have published GEDCOM 7 as "FamilySearch GEDCOM", and will continue to evolve it under that name.

Roger

Hi Roger

Maybe this is a silly question: But who "owns" GEDCOM and has the final saying about what is "common law" according to the standard/the codes?

When FamilySearch publishes a version 7 which certainty do users of all the different genealogy programs have, that they work with that standard?

[RickM]

49 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

I wouldn't pay much attention to what 5.5.5 says - it was published NOT by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. FamilySearch have published GEDCOM 7 as "FamilySearch GEDCOM", and will continue to evolve it under that name.

Roger

28 minutes ago, Hanne said:

Hi Roger

Maybe this is a silly question: But who "owns" GEDCOM and has the final saying about what is "common law" according to the standard/the codes?

When FamilySearch publishes a version 7 which certainty do users of all the different genealogy programs have, that they work with that standard?

I too, would love an answer Roger.. FamilySearch LDS dropped the ball with GEDCOM. They fluffed about with various 'drafts' with their last 'official standard' 5.5 released Dec 1995.

They have climbed back on the horse because others have taken up where they dropped the ball, and they do not like what is happening IMHO..
As I have stated in another Post. I am not in this for an argument, or to prove something. I am in this for Genealogys sake and the benefit of all.

Perhaps there are many who may see 'FAMILYSEARCH GEDCOM' as proprietary and not suited to the world in general..

 

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

Hello all

I am just about updating TNG and exporting from Legacy - and suddenly I know, why I guess STIL is the Danish "Dødfødt": It actually says so in export utility in Legacy! But it doesn't do it.

 

[RickM]

If I have done this right, it looks like one has to put STIL or STILLBORN in the Baptism Event or LDS Baptism Event.. And GEDCOM in second snippet

Would have to admit though Brents idea seems better.. This GEDCOM thing is really hard for a novice like me to get <Smile>.

[bhemph]

Hanne,
     I see the share icons when I click on the share (Skjul) link.

 

My numbers for the individual and family were just supposed to be examples.  Sorry about any confusion.

For events that do not have standard tags, from my GEDCOM one that imports and gives counts:
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Directory
2 DATE 1881
2 PLAC Hemphill George, carp., res. 1405 Agency Av

The only difference is that your adoption event has data on the line after the EVEN tag.  Maybe that is causing the event to not be as expected.  You could try once just removing it from the GEDCOM and see if it makes any difference.

With the stillborn, you are correct in that if Legacy doesn't put something in the GEDCOM then TNG is not going to have a chance to figure it out.

The GEDCOM standard is copyright by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with multiple versions since 1987.  The ability to print the standards to use as specifications for software developers is granted.  The GEDCOM 5.5.5 was one where a blogger copied the pages modified them and then put their own copyright on it and then pushed it out on the internet as a big new release.  The problem with the GEDCOM standard is that there is nothing saying this is how it has to be read and done, just this is what should be.  So software developers decided to use it only as a template and create their own tags and fit many square pegs in the round holes to say that it follows the standard.  This happens often in specifications that a software company says they follow the standard.  Since they are not regulated by a government agency that checks how the standard was implemented, they are able to make their own interpretation of the standard and say they use and follow it.

We just need to figure out what settings in Legacy make sure to export the data we want.  Then we need to make sure that the Legacy Standard version is read in by TNG to be able to have the data and process and display it in the way expected.  That is the end goal we are all looking for, just being able to follow a few steps to update the tree with a new GEDCOM and know how it should look when the import is completed.

Brent

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

9 hours ago, RickM said:

If I have done this right, it looks like one has to put STIL or STILLBORN in the Baptism Event or LDS Baptism Event.. And GEDCOM in second snippet

Would have to admit though Brents idea seems better.. This GEDCOM thing is really hard for a novice like me to get <Smile>.

Hi RickM

Your solution looks perfect - with your programme which ever that is. But in Legacy I know (from the super expert in Denmark) that she does it like me: Put the same dates in born- and death-fields and leave the surname. It is a "Stegemüller", a "Jensen" or whatever it might be, so the surname is correct. There is no first name. And the child is born and death on the same date. So that should be correct.

[Hanne B. Stegemüller]

54 minutes ago, bhemph said:

Hanne,
     I see the share icons when I click on the share (Skjul) link.

 

My numbers for the individual and family were just supposed to be examples.  Sorry about any confusion.

For events that do not have standard tags, from my GEDCOM one that imports and gives counts:
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Directory
2 DATE 1881
2 PLAC Hemphill George, carp., res. 1405 Agency Av

The only difference is that your adoption event has data on the line after the EVEN tag.  Maybe that is causing the event to not be as expected.  You could try once just removing it from the GEDCOM and see if it makes any difference.

With the stillborn, you are correct in that if Legacy doesn't put something in the GEDCOM then TNG is not going to have a chance to figure it out.

The GEDCOM standard is copyright by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with multiple versions since 1987.  The ability to print the standards to use as specifications for software developers is granted.  The GEDCOM 5.5.5 was one where a blogger copied the pages modified them and then put their own copyright on it and then pushed it out on the internet as a big new release.  The problem with the GEDCOM standard is that there is nothing saying this is how it has to be read and done, just this is what should be.  So software developers decided to use it only as a template and create their own tags and fit many square pegs in the round holes to say that it follows the standard.  This happens often in specifications that a software company says they follow the standard.  Since they are not regulated by a government agency that checks how the standard was implemented, they are able to make their own interpretation of the standard and say they use and follow it.

We just need to figure out what settings in Legacy make sure to export the data we want.  Then we need to make sure that the Legacy Standard version is read in by TNG to be able to have the data and process and display it in the way expected.  That is the end goal we are all looking for, just being able to follow a few steps to update the tree with a new GEDCOM and know how it should look when the import is completed.

Brent

Hi Brent

Thanks a lot for your reply!

This is a super thread! It so nice to have a forum to ask the questions that have been stumbling around in my mind for a long time..

Strange about the icons. I must have blocked something in my browser (Firefox), and I must search there. I just tried my reserve browser (Google Chrome which I do not use); it does also not show the icons. Strange. But anyway: I'm glad it looks fine to other users.

I have changed a bit in Legacy/GEDCOM, so it now looks like this about my adoption:

1 SOUR @SAuth@
1 EVEN Adoptivforældre: Jørgen Stegemüller og Jytte Baunsgaard Kristensen
2 TYPE Adopteret
2 DATE 10 Jun. 1965
2 PLAC Ringkøbing Amt
2 SOUR @S27@
3 PAGE Adoptionssagen
3 QUAY 4

I don't quite understand what you mean by: "adoption event has data on the line after the EVEN tag". Which line is it you think I could try to remove? And now we are talking about just one tag - what about all the others that do not give counts? I am ready to experiment with this (I also have a test site for "dangerous" processes where I can do this), but I can't figure out how I can bring neatly order in this chaos. And really: I try to have neatly order in master data. For the moment I am tidying up old issues that I have brought with me from 1) WinFamily 2) Brothers Keeper and 3) Family Tree Maker before I entered Legacy 15 years (or so) ago.

I come closer and closer to the conclusion, that something is wrong in my beloved Legacy - I'll have to ask my Danish expert in Legacy whether I do something wrong? On the other hand: I think I handle Legacy correct because as an example my adoption is shown correctly in the frontend-TNG: https://tng.stegemueller.dk/getperson.php?personID=I1&amp;tree=HBS

Thank you for the explanation about the GEDCOM standard and how it is being used (and interpreted) by software developers.That was all new to me. (Politics: There ought to be some kind of government agency that could determine what is wrong and correct when there are so many millions of genealogists around the world and as the hobby is becoming more and more popular).