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Add Person Siblings Row mod

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fluffy82
6 minutes ago, Robin Richmond said:

Add Parents Children Row has not been updated with all of these new features, and I don't know whether that will ever happy. It's not because of Regroup Person Profile, but, it does set up the dilemma that, at this point neither Regroup Person Profile nor Add Parents Children Row do not implement these new features in the parents' data blocks.

Yes, sorry for thinking it was the RPP mod that caused this. I uninstalled it to see what happens, and also without RPP the siblings display randomly between the birth/death/residence/occupation/... facts in stead of in the parents block - where I want them.

I think the easiest solution for the users (probably not for the coders) would be that both the "Add Person Siblings" and "Add Parents Children" are combined into one mod. I'm not very good at coding myself, but as it is basically the same information I guess it should be possible and not too difficult to add an option to the existing options, asking the user wether he wants the siblings displayed in the parents block or in the other events block. This way only the Add Person Siblings mod needs future follow-ups and the Add Parents Children becomes obsolete. Or am I oversimplifying things?

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tngrlkrz
25 minutes ago, fluffy82 said:

the siblings display randomly between the birth/death/residence/occupation/..

The siblings should not be appearing 'randomly' among the persons facts or events, but always at the end of the person&events section, just ahead of the personID.   To this time, the intention of the mod has been to place it ahead of the parent block, rather than within it, but it should be in a consistent position.  At least in all my testing, have not seen the siblings interspersed anywhere else.

You mention wanting the siblings in the Parents section.  But they're not siblings of the parents, but of the person, aren't they?  Maybe I misunderstand.

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fluffy82
18 minutes ago, tngrlkrz said:

The siblings should not be appearing 'randomly among the persons facts or events', but always at the end of the person&events section, just ahead of the personID.   To this time, the intention of the mod has been to place it ahead of the parent block, rather than within it, but it should be in a consistent position.  At least in all my testing, have not seen the siblings interspersed anywhere else.

You mention wanting the siblings in the Parents section.  But they're not siblings of the parents, but of the person, aren't they?  Maybe I misunderstand.

By "randomly" I meant that I didn't see a reason or a logic in the placement. But it is indeed always in the same spot. I don't have the personID, and it is followed by other things (such as the patriarch and matriarch) added by different mods, so that's why it seems to be "thrown in".

To me (and that's purely my own preference) it seems most logical if there are 4 blocks:

  1. the personal details (birth, death, title, occupation,...)
  2. the parents block (parents and parents' children --> the siblings of the person)
  3. the family block (person's spouse and person's children)
  4. other information (census, military, residence,...)

It seems logical to me to put the siblings with the parents, as the parents are the link between the person and his/her siblings.

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tngrlkrz
55 minutes ago, fluffy82 said:

By "randomly" I meant that I didn't see a reason or a logic in the placement. But it is indeed always in the same spot. I don't have the personID, and it is followed by other things (such as the patriarch and matriarch) added by different mods, so that's why it seems to be "thrown in".

To me (and that's purely my own preference) it seems most logical if there are 4 blocks:

  1. the personal details (birth, death, title, occupation,...)
  2. the parents block (parents and parents' children --> the siblings of the person)
  3. the family block (person's spouse and person's children)
  4. other information (census, military, residence,...)

If the siblings are placed now as children within the parents block, conceptually, the term 'sibling' would be discarded since now pointing to the parents rather than the subject person.  As it stands now, it require a separate mod..the Add Person's Sibling Row title no longer fits either. 

 Here is what it appears like being in the parents section. (a few moved code lines)

image.png

As to combining mods, that's beyond the scope of this mod.  Ken and I are not the original authors, but have merely brought it forward to TNG 13 with a few enhancements and options, and retained compatibility with TNG 12.3.

Ron

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fluffy82
14 minutes ago, tngrlkrz said:

the term 'sibling' would be discarded since now pointing to the parents rather than the subject person

Not really. "Father" and "Mother" reflect their relation to the subject person, so "Siblings" would be more logical, as they are the subject person's siblings not their children.

 

On John Smith's profile you would have

Father [of John Smith]

Mother [of John Smith]

Siblings [of John Smith]

Residence [of John Smith]

Occupation [of John Smith]

Baptism [of John Smith]

.....

Everything on the person profile refers to the subject. It would be weird to have only one line on the whole page suddenly referring to his parents...

Children [of John Smith's parents]

 

 

But I understand combining them is not doable right now. I'll just stick with Add Parents Children.

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tngrlkrz

I sort of see your point, but it IS the parents section, starting with Father and Mother.  Better than that would be to have the siblings in its own section, then I would agree that all (sections) point to the subject of the page.  That's what I actually did privately.

I guess we're getting into the repositioning of various elements of the page, outside the scope of this mod which has been released positioned the same as it was originally intended by its author, with some enhancements.

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Robin Richmond

Sorry for the number of words in this message guys. I want to speak to both Ron's and Fluffy82's positions,  but I'm not sure whether I'm proposing a compromise or proposing to split the baby in half. So I'm being extra careful.

As we all know, TNG admins propose new mod features all the time, and, for most of those ideas to be implemented, some mod author has to volunteer to write a new mod or modify one of that author's existing mods. It is rare, and generally both bad form and a bad idea for programmers to modify other authors' mods and distribute those modifications. Doing so is likely to create both confusion and support dilemmas.   It is also problematic, but sometimes reasonable, for mod authors to implement features that (in some form or another) have already been implemented by another mod.  Let me repeat..it is definitely problematic to do so, and I certainly do not want to do so willy-nilly. On the other hand, it can sometimes be done cleanly.

Ken hasn't weighed in specifically about Add Person Siblings Row, Add Parents Children Row, Regroup Person Profile, and siblings-as-children-of-parents, so I'm speaking somewhat hypothetically.  But, as I understand it, Ken is the "owner" of Add Person Siblings Row (which was enhanced by a team of at least 4 programmers and several translators), and he gets to make the call about whether he's willing to implement or support additional mod features. He also gets to decide whether anything is done with Add Parents Children Row.

On the other hand, I (like Fluffy82) think that presenting the profiled person's siblings as children of the profiled person's parents is valid and useful. And, of course, I have already implemented such a list and done so in a way that was compatible with Add Person Siblings Row and Add Parents Children Row.  Going forward, I'll need to decide how and whether to enhance my mod (or maybe to split off some functionality), with the caveat that I don't want to create mod conflicts nor confusion about which mods do what. 

All that said, I cannot commit to anything right now, because I need to finish a couple of active projects, and I have promised Ken that I will try to resolve some existing mod conflicts before taking on new projects.   Still, I would like for TNG admins to have the option of seeing the new features of Add Person Siblings Row and Show All Family in a siblings-as-children-of-parents list and I plan to look into it further. But carefully.

In the meantime, it appears that site admins who want siblings-as-children-of-parents will need to choose between the current comparatively dull Regroup Person Profile implementation and the nice new feature of siblings-as-siblings.  I have placed a checkpoint on my calendar, but Fluffy82 - will you check back with me in at least three weeks to see what this effort stands?

- Robin

 

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fluffy82
On 1/17/2021 at 12:01 AM, Robin Richmond said:

I have placed a checkpoint on my calendar, but Fluffy82 - will you check back with me in at least three weeks to see what this effort stands?

Hey Robin, just checking in 😄

I noticed something weird.

As explained before, the only reason I don't use the Add Person Siblings Row mod is because the siblings are not displayed with their parents. I keep on using the Add Parents Children Row mod for this - even though it has not been updated with any new functionalities. However... When I look at the websites of people using APSR, they all have the siblings in the parents block - as I want/need it. Did I miss an update or something?

I'm not at home right now, I'll check this weekend if the APSR mod suddenly works for me.

Regards,
Tom

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Robin Richmond

Neither the text or the revision history of Admin Person Siblings Row suggests that any such change has been made. All I can suggest is that the admins of the sites you looked at agreed with you, and preferred to see the siblings in the parents' block, and were content not to see the sibling's spouses.

- Robin

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Ken Roy

Tom,

Can you provide links to user site that indicate they are using the Add Person Siblings Row mod that show the information in the parents section?

Maybe the are in fact using the Add Parents Children Row mod, or maybe they are using Robin's mod which incorporated the information there.

Unfortunately too many users no longer update the TNG wiki to indicate they are using a given mod.

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fluffy82
28 minutes ago, Ken Roy said:

Can you provide links to user site that indicate they are using the Add Person Siblings Row mod that show the information in the parents section?

I went to the websites listed at the bottom of the Wiki page and then just to a random person profile on those sites.

For example Jeff Robinson or John Mark Motyer.
Some of the others have the siblings among the personal information (as the mod was designed) and one or two have them in a totally separate block (probably private changes).

EDIT: you are right, Jeff Robinson also indicates using the Add Parents Children Row mod... So probably the Wiki is not updated and he is not using APSR anymore. Sorry if that caused any confusion, I should have thought of that and checked before posting.

Edited by fluffy82

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Ken Roy
1 hour ago, fluffy82 said:

For example Jeff Robinson or John Mark Motyer.
Some of the others have the siblings among the personal information (as the mod was designed) and one or two have them in a totally separate block (probably private changes).

Jeff has been away from TNG in the last year or so.  He allowed me to update the Add Person Siblings Row when we were testing Michel Kirsch's Sosa mod and Scott DuPree's Show All Family mod.

Jeff indicated recently he is not using the Add Person Siblings Row but his other mod, so he likely has not had the time to remove his site for the table.

Since the Add Parents Children Row is Jeff's mod he would need to make any necessary update if he wants to support the mod support we added in the Add Person Siblings Row mod.

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Ken Roy
1 hour ago, fluffy82 said:

APSR anymore

Can we please quit abbreviating mod names

Thank you

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fluffy82
1 hour ago, Ken Roy said:

Can we please quit abbreviating mod names

Thank you

Yes, sorry. I thought that within context it would be clear but you're right, I actually hate those letter strings as well :)

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Joyaa

I have just installed this Mod and the highlighting isn't working as I had hoped.  Is this due to something I have done wrong?   Is there something I can do to achieve a yellow or other colour highlighting?

First screenshot is what I achieved (where is the highlight?).  Second screenshot is from Hanne Stegmuller's lovely site (https://tng.stegemueller.dk/index.php)

image.png

image.png

Thanks very much in advance, Joyaa

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Brett

Joyaa

3 hours ago, Joyaa said:

where is the highlight

Hanne has these settings:

Include current individual in siblings list?
true = YES
false = NO
Do do not use quotes!
Default is (true)

She has this set as true

Select highlighting option for current person if included with siblings
"1" = will use background-color for the whole current person row
"2" = will use background-color for the current person only
"3" = will use background-color for the current person only and display "(Current Person)" after the name of the current person
Do do not use quotes!
Defaults to (1)

Hanne has this set as 1.

What settings do you have for these?

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Joyaa

I have "true" under include current individual, as does she.
For the highlight option I currently use '3' but all three options suggest that they will use the background colour and using 1, 2 or 3 makes no difference to the pale grey background I see  -  no obvious highlight of the current person.   (Thanks Brett).

image.png

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Brett

Tried each option for highlight and all work on Hanne's site.

What other Mods do you have installed. I wonder if there is one overwriting the Sibling Mod.

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Joyaa

Hi - these - 

image.png

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Joyaa

Aah - if you can see that ... thanks Brett, I needed to clear my cache.  Looking fine now!

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Brett
On 12/18/2020 at 3:21 AM, Ken Roy said:

I took over Jeff's Add Person Siblings Row mod

Ken

If Group Custom events is installed, Add person siblings row shows as Cannot install.

line 237: %target:getperson.php% verified
line 239: %parameter:$collapsesibs:true
line 246: %parameter:$includecurind:true

line 254: %location:% #1 Bad target

If Add person siblings row is installed firstm Group custom events can be installed.

FYI

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Ken Roy

Then you all need to update the Group custom events mod to indicate the install dependency.  I no longer have the time to test mods against other mods that essentially destroy the TNG page architecture. 

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Ken Roy

Brett,

Thanks for the install dependency warning.  I have updated both mods to add the Caution template to show the mod install dependency

{{caution
|notes=

}}

 

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Michel KIRSCH

Brett, Ken,

the warning for dependency was already on the wikipapge twice. Thx to Ken to highligth it...

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