Jump to content
TNG Community
abobymous

external media links not showing "View item" button

Recommended Posts

abobymous

Hi all -  We are seeing a strange thing happening with external links to images.  After importing the ancestry.com gedcom the media items appear to be correctly linked to their respective People and Families. However, the button to "View item..." is not appearing.  I'll try to describe the behavior with a bunch of screen snips.  (main Question is at end of this post.)

This first image shows what is happening when viewing the photo.  The external photo is not loading.  I'm not really worried about the filename not showing the entire URL.  This is likely because Ancestry doesn't allow it.  That's fine but isn't the problem. 

 

In the Edit screen TNG shows the full URL and the "external checkbox" unselected.  

1.JPG

When I click the external checkbox the URL field is blanked out.  

2.JPG

After I either, 1) leave the box unchecked and paste in the Owner/Source, or 2) check the box and re-paste the Media URL I get the View Item... button as expected.

3.JPG

4.JPG

My question is:  Is there a way to correct the condition where these external links are not displaying the View Item button correctly?

///Bob

5.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken Roy

A URL to the failing links would be a lot more helpful for us to provide recommendations on how to fix the issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

Ken, I sent the URL to you privately. Thank you for offering to take a look.

I want to clarify just to make sure we're on the same page.  The media links work fine when they get "Registered" with TNG.  The main question is, should we expect that external links (URLs) automatically get "registered" when importing a gedcom?

The other usability behavior described in the original post are lower priority and an opportunity to tighten up the user experience.  Again though, I'm troubleshooting whether or not external media links should be auto-registered when importing a gedcom.

Thanks again; this community is really great!

---Bob

cc: @manofmull

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
manofmull

Bob

< should we expect that external links (URLs) automatically get "registered" when importing a gedcom? >

Like you, I await Ken's reply as he is more gedcom-savvy than me.  FWIW, my own guess would be no because "registering" (adding in Admin) gives you control over your site content i.e. it's a safety net.  If external media or links were auto-registered, they could contain content that you or another might find objectionable or are just wrong. TNG would have to be modified by Darrin in order for it to work, given his approval. I can't see that happening and it may not even be practical.

In your second image above, the external URL must be added AFTER checking/ticking the little box and this is why the field empties of anything already there.

 

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken Roy
6 hours ago, abobymous said:

I want to clarify just to make sure we're on the same page.  The media links work fine when they get "Registered" with TNG.  The main question is, should we expect that external links (URLs) automatically get "registered" when importing a gedcom?

Bob,

I am sorry, I do not know the answer to that question.  I did not realize you were talking about importing media links that point to an external source.   While I use a lot of external links in my Military History collection, I do not import media.  All my media is created and managed in TNG.  I also do not have a tree on Ancestry and importing from Ancestry might also be a different challenge.

I have never checked the GEDCOM specifications to see if media could be specified as external links.

Media as used in TNG is very different than most genealogy programs allow.  Most of them recognize only photos and a few might recognize document categories.  User collections, which I use are a TNG feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

The media feature in TNG is really cool.  Being able to point to items stored at a different location (URL) is a very powerful feature.  I like how TNG handles media. 😃

How do I get in front of Darrin to discuss this?  Simply put, TNG supports URLs to offsite media but when they are loaded they do not work.

Have a great rest of your weekend,

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
manofmull

Bob

You can contact Darrin here  darrin@lythgoes.net

< Simply put, TNG supports URLs to offsite media but when they are loaded they do not work >

External links do work, but must be registered in Admin: I have thousands!

As another example, the following mod links to other site URLs

https://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php?title=Burial_Website_Media_Import

 

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

Mike, I'll email him.  I also looked at the Mod referenced above and it was very informative. Thank you.

If you don't mind I will practice my argument here. (😃)  Please share your thoughts, advice.  I really appreciate the experience avail here in the forums.

Straight-forward Media items not requiring additional analysis, record creation or associations should be registered fully with TNG during gedcom import.  (More complicated scenarios are not in scope.)

If it is true that media items using a URL have little to no usability (or lead to a dead end experience in the orig post) then any such media should be Imported in a way that registers them fully.  Stated another way, what's the harm with flipping the internal registration flag ON when the filename is a fully qualified URL?

**respectfully and with an earnest focus on improving how TNG delights users...**

Further, my position based on professional experience is that workarounds are not good enough if it is always required.  (Forgive me if gedcoms from other sources work properly in exactly this same situation. If that's the case an opportunity for improvement has been exposed.)  Similarly a Mod should not be required to always get expected behavior, IMO.  Rather, the handling code should be updated /made more robust ( I hesitate to say fixed).

Let me know if you have differing thoughts, advice or guidance that may clarify how I may approach this with Darrin.

Cheers y'all,

---Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken Roy

Bob,

You will need to provide Darrin  a snippet from GEDCOM that shows the entries for what you are calling external media links  TNG handles external URLs that are parts of Notes without creating Media records, so to me the question is what is in the  .ged file that causes these external links to be imported as Media records.

Without seeing a snippet of your .ged file,  one can only guess as to what it happening.  The .ged file extract will be needed for Darrin to improve the media import

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

Here's a snip of an example.  It is the entire INDI record.  I'll compose a message to Darrin and shoot it off. 

Solution may boil down to determining the FILE segment is "external" as opposed to a "path."  This makes sense based on the workaround in the O.P.  :)

0 @P1080@ INDI
1 SEX M
1 NAME Joseph /Turgeon/
1 OBJE
2 _PRIM Y
2 FILE http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b-dedb-4523-8301-50e809c87367&tid=81340298&pid=1080
2 FORM jpg
2 TITL 1768-03-04 Turgeon Joseph - individu - naissance
1 FAMC @F248@
1 FAMS @F247@


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
manofmull

Bob

Further to what Ken said and your latest reply, I need to go back a bit.

In your first post image 1, was the Ancestry URL field populated with the gedcom import or did you copy and paste the URL in?

I should have added the following irrespective of how it got there. Again in image 1, you'll see the Ancestry URL as "File name on site" (little box is unchecked/not ticked). This field works two ways: for file names on site and for external URLs. If you choose the latter, the box must be checked first and then the URL added. In your image 1, a URL exists when it should be a filename in your setup. In image 2 with the box checked, the field is now looking for the URL because you're telling TNG the file is NOT in your setup but is external.

If the field was populated with gedcom import, I can see your point of argument and it will be interesting to see what Darrin has to say. I'll be very surprised if he accepts your point and changes things, bearing in mind that with registering (adding in Admin), you have full control. The TNG change you require might not be possible.

 

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
theKiwi

 

1 hour ago, abobymous said:

Solution may boil down to determining the FILE segment is "external" as opposed to a "path."  This makes sense based on the workaround in the O.P.  :)


0 @P1080@ INDI
1 SEX M
1 NAME Joseph /Turgeon/
1 OBJE
2 _PRIM Y
2 FILE http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b-dedb-4523-8301-50e809c87367&tid=81340298&pid=1080
2 FORM jpg
2 TITL 1768-03-04 Turgeon Joseph - individu - naissance
1 FAMC @F248@
1 FAMS @F247@

I think the main problem here is that the 2 FILE is listed directly under an INDI record, with nothing prior saying that this is actually a media item

What is actually at that link - according to Ancestry it's broken.

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

Here is a snip of the A.com page after clicking through from my site.  I also received the "no longer available" message when going directly through a new tab, so Ancestry is likely doing some anti-site-ripping checks on it.    It's just a photo.  :)

 

5.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abobymous

Here is some fun technical info.  I queried the media table in the DB and pulled before and after for two examples.  The before state is the same for both so I only included it once.
In example 1, all I did was check the "External" box when Editing the Media item.  This appears to be very straightforward and makes sense.
In example 2, the external checkbox WAS NOT selected but the Owner was set to http://www.ancestry.com.

Both examples properly show the "View Item..." button when viewing the media (see screen snip in OP)

It appears that when either the <absPath> or the <owner> column is set, TNG with go to the <path>.  If the item cannot be loaded it displays the View Item... button, which is the behavior we want.

Possible solutions to present to the Devs could be:
1) A new option in the Admin // Import settings to mark all media items (OBJE) as external if the FILE segment begins with http:// or https:// (the URL essentially documents the source),  or
2) for media items with a FILE segment beginning with http:// or https://, add the Owner/Source information by parsing out the hostname.  (a bit more complicated but some users may want to document in this way).

Good stuff!

*the ancestry.com links may not work for you because of the permissions and anti-ripping protections that A.com has on those pages. The examples are single photos.

  after gedcom import after checking "external" box after adding the owner (not checking the box) different example, mediaID
mediaID 1041 1041 1245
mediatypeID photos photos photos
mediakey http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b... http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b...
gedcom 808 808 808
form JPG    
path http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b... http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=5c6e5e3b...
description 1768-03-04 Turgeon Joseph - individu - naissance 1768-03-04 Turgeon Joseph - individu - naissance 1910 census
datetaken NULL    
placetaken NULL    
notes NULL    
owner NULL  
thumbpath NULL    
alwayson NULL 0 0
map NULL    
abspath NULL 1 <--makes sense
0 <-- ?? See owner above
status NULL 0  
showmap NULL 0 0
cemeteryID NULL 0 0
plot NULL    
linktocem NULL 0 0
longitude NULL    
latitude NULL    
zoom NULL 0 0
width NULL 0 0
height NULL   0
bodytext NULL <br> <br>
usenl   0 0
newwindow   0 0
usecollfolder 1 1 1
changedate 2019-06-29 9:24:16 2019-06-30 15:37:43 2019-06-30 15:58:17
changedby   abobymous abobymous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken Roy
1 hour ago, abobymous said:

Here is a snip of the A.com page after clicking through from my site.  I also received the "no longer available" message when going directly through a new tab, so Ancestry is likely doing some anti-site-ripping checks on it.    It's just a photo. 

Well this is just a photo of an entry from the Drouin Collection which is also a subscription service from the University of Montreal.

I do not have a tree on Ancestry for multiple reasons but recognize the images which might come from another site

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×