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Newfloridian

What constitutes a "Family"? How should TNG represent it?

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Newfloridian

I would like opinions about what consistutes a family. If you look at the getperson page for an individual (say John Smith, married with two children) you will see:

Family 1:  Susan Jones
Married:  At place
Children: 1  /  2

 

Below I have listed five scenarios (the first four are based on situations found in my own database). How many families does each have, and how would you expect them to be presented.

1. Susan Jones married Fred Brown. No children. Fred then died
    Susan (Jones) Brown married John Green. Three children

2. Sarah Ball had two illegitimate children before        
    Sarah Ball married Joseph Johnson and had three children
    
3. Richard Robertson married Emily Clark. Five children
at the same time on the other side of town:
    Richard Robertson set up a second home (unmarried - he's not a bigamist!) with Susan Gold and had four children

4. Felicity Crane had an illegitimate child three years before
    Felicity married Brian Jenkinson. They had two children. Brian then died and
    Felicity went on to have two more illegitimate children.    
    
5. Mary Black, a dedicated career woman has no time for men or marriage but has three children by IVF

Alan

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manofmull

As I see it, a family is the pairing of one individual to another, whether married or not and irrespective of subsequent children i.e. they have children or do not.

Even with the IVF thing this is still a family. An unnamed partner(s) which I leave blank btw (I hate "unknowns") would have to be added to create the family F number and to list the children against those parents.

 

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Chris Moss

I'm not sure I agree with manofmull's definition. I have at least one family in my tree that has no partners, only children. It happens that there are two brothers who take part in the tree but I have no information on their parents. I also dislike "Unknown"s.

Chris

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manofmull

Chris

Without wishing to go round in circles, any children must have parents, whether known or not. If you have multiple children that are known as siblings how do you list them without a family F number ?

On my own site I have the very same scenario, children listed on a Census with no known parents. I had to create a family F number (parents left blank) in order to list them as siblings, otherwise they'd be individuals outwith a family group.

 

M

 

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Newfloridian

I use Legacy, which does allow single women (and men for that matter) to have children - and generate a family F number) and upload by GEDCOM to TNG. TNG also holds the F number genberated for each family group.

The answers in my case are:

1.  Susan Jones married Fred Brown. No children. Fred then died
    Susan (Jones) Brown married John Green. Three children
Family 1
Family 2

2. Sarah Ball had two illegitimate children before        
    Sarah Ball married Joseph Johnson and had three children 
No Family number given
Family 2

3. Richard Robertson married Emily Clark. Five children
at the same time on the other side of town:
Richard Robertson set up a second home (unmarried - he's not a bigamist!) with Susan Gold and had four children
Family 1
Family 2

4. Felicity Crane had an illegitimate child three years before
    Felicity married Brian Jenkinson. They had two children. Brian then died and
    Felicity went on to have two more illegitimate children. 
No Family number given
Family 2
No Family number given

5 (my assumption)  Mary Black, a dedicated career woman has no time for men or marriage but has three children by IVF
No Family number given 
 

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Newfloridian

... and I also want to make a firm differentiation between a situation (1) when one or more people (parents of an individual) are unknown on my part because of lack of confirmatory documentation AND (2) when the father of a family is definitely unknown (through a birth certificate, baptism record, bastardy record etc) as in the case of a solo woman (could be unmarried or widow) with born out of wedlock child(ren).

I believe that cases in both (1) and (2) should afforded the courtesy of the title of a numbered family

Alan

   

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Merv
9 hours ago, Newfloridian said:

... and I also want to make a firm differentiation between a situation (1) when one or more people (parents of an individual) are unknown on my part because of lack of confirmatory documentation AND (2) when the father of a family is definitely unknown (through a birth certificate, baptism record, bastardy record etc) as in the case of a solo woman (could be unmarried or widow) with born out of wedlock child(ren).

I believe that cases in both (1) and (2) should afforded the courtesy of the title of a numbered family

Alan

   

Have you thought about putting these details in the family notes section? Then It would be very obvious the nature of each family.

 

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Newfloridian

As Chris said, all I am looking for is that TNG is given the function to allow the "incomplete" family to be headed "Family x" 

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jayat1familytree

The problem is that not everyone does things the same way. So you cannot expect TNG to assume you want it a specific way..

 

Personally I believe the best solution is to use 'placeholders'

In Chris example link

http://mossfamilytree.info/getperson.php?personID=I870&tree=tree1

The Family should be UnknownM Cooke ( born bef 1812, deceased) and (Married bef 1830) UnknownF Unknown (born bef 1812, deceased)

Any 'illegit' child should have a father of UnknownM Unknown 

(there are no immaculate conceptions so children should have both parents and if you dont know the use a placeholder...

because that way any transfers of data wont get screwed up.... I have seen so many instances of incorrect data simply because not every program PROPERLY imports data (gedcom or not) when you leave something to be 'assumed'

 

 

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