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raisondetre

All Media/Albums/Collections - for LARGE image groups

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raisondetre

First, before pointing me to regular program help, know that I have already consulted and read all the info on this issue on Wiki as well as 'Help With This Area' info. I understand the 'Active' and 'Viewable' buttons. Now I just want to make sure I understand all the possible options for what I am attempting to do, which is:

Create collections of 'modern' events, weddings, trips, gatherings, reunions which would contain a rather large quantity of images in one folder (album/collection). I would like a structure of sub-folders so visitors do not experience, say, 3 turn-of-the-century ancestor photos on an alpha list, followed by 200 images from a recent wedding. Of course, I could use another program - like One-Drive or such for those modern collections - but I want to keep the 'heritage' aspect (building the family experience) in one place, i.e. my TNG website. We have had many photographers in the family - from 1880 to date. Those images and other memorabilia tell 'our story.' I have finally added most of the pre-1940 images (about 1300) - from there forward there will be an explosion. 

I know I can create albums - gathering images already uploaded into one grouping.

I know how to create and name a collection - again with images/docs etc. previously uploaded and grouped - and have it appear in the drop-down menu

BUT - No matter what kind of grouping I create, ALL of those images or documents will appear in ALL Media, correct? 

It appears 'topsy-turvy' to me that everyone can see ALL photos then drill down into collections and albums. I wish that was flipped - see that collection, then explore albums, then - if still not satisfied - see everything. It is a reverse process of that now. It would also be cool if everything - (A) all media,, (B) collections and (C) albums could have permissions at user setup. Also, from a spatial perspective, it would be nice to be able to 'Hide' the 'Master' list (i.e. All Media view) for admin purposes only. 

Other than creating more trees to isolate those modern events and then providing users with an additional password setup so they can access these special groupings as well as primary, regular genealogical trees, I do not know how to keep from having all media in one long comprehensive list. 

Sub-folders work to organize the material in CPanel - then it is just a matter of making sure the paths point to the right level of folder. I'm OK there. 

Unless I am missing something, I cannot have that same hierarchy structure within TNG public files. 

Surely I am not the only one wanting to add - eventually - large numbers of photos to their website. I'm open for ideas and wonder how others have worked out this issue. Hope I have explained myself clearly. Thanks! MSB

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jayat1familytree

You are correct.  TNG was designed BEFORE the now common practice of starting with nothing and looking with filters.

Or as also referred to as "starting mobile friendly" as the early days of mobile could not quickly receive all the info.

IT would be an enhancement if you could start with no media and the make selection on what to search for...

IT is also a COMPLETE waste of server/CPU power as the first search is tossed away when a second search is started.

 

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raisondetre

Thanks for your input. So it seems I have the right overview and will have to deal with it. 

As for your last sentence, it also seems a waste to have all media fed into the server space and then replicated (not moved) into the various groupings. Makes for lots of duplication - THAT's what I was trying to avoid (200 wedding pics uploaded to the server, now on the master list - then those same 200 pics copied into a special album). I am still open for any ideas if someone has figured out some clever method around this . . . Thanks again. MSB

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bhemph

There is the show folio mod (http://tng.lythgoes.net/wiki/index.php?title=Showfolio_Mod) that takes a folder filled with pictures and makes kind of a mini album for them that then only shows up once in the All Media list.  I was looking into the mod for doing something like the probate records for sure.  I was trying to decide if it would be better for ship lists than doing an album too, but haven't decided what I like best there yet.  It could be used in your case though to take a lot of recent photos from an event and put them all in one folder to only have to show the event once in the All Media page whether there are 20 photos or 2000, depending on how photo happy someone got.  The mod has an option to create an index file to make sure that the folder is not able to be browsed as well.  You don't have the option to label everyone in the pictures like you can with the individual uploads though, so if someone can't remember who that is in picture 28 they would have to send a message asking "Who is the guy in the blue shirt in picture 28 of the album John and Kate Smith Wedding 2016?" instead of possibly hovering over the guy in the blue shirt and having Joseph Brown show up and have a link to his getperson page.  If you wanted say a mix of say 3 of the photos with the family members identified in the nice family group shots attached singly and also in the folio, you could do that so the majority of the photos are unidentified and in the folio but you can click on the linked person at the bottom, which would be your wedding couple and then the singly linked pictures would be on their page for a moderately quick identification.  Not quite sure if it would work for your work case scenario or not, but at least it is something that is out there.

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raisondetre

Wow! You know I saw that mod but didn't really understand it. I appreciate your explanation. I have a couple of experiments going on with 100 to 200 pics. I'll add this to my so-called task list and see what it looks like. Labeling is important if I am going to keep the 'heritage' concept working for future entries so I will have to see if there is a workaround there. Thanks again. If I commit to a method, I'll add some notes back here. MSB

Hold it! I was thinking of something else. I use the ShowFolio mod already. (It has been awhile since I created a new one - memory went blank there for a minute). I use it for multi-page histories (images either stand alone or embedded in the doc.) - usually stories created in php editor.  ("A folio simulates a multi page document handled as if it were a single TNG media object.") Images in the folio folder take a whole page unless embedded - it would (I think) look like a photo album with one photo per page. That's OK for small groups (10 to 20?) but awkward for 100 and up.

It seems what I need is a similar tool for albums. It would be great if, once a group of images are in a specific album, the album would show up in the All Media list as a single item,  and the individual images included in the album wouldn't be duplicated. I'll keep chewing on this one . . . Thanks for trying. MSB

Edited by raisondetre
Mistake; checked and corrected

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Paul Barrett

My solution to this issue is offline from TNG so you won't be interested, but I thought I'd add it into the mix.

I store all my photos on a web accessible Synology NAS and use Synology Photo Station to serve up content.  There's a link on the person's page which uses a default icon for Photo Gallery.

I add a media item which is a URL, which launches a seeded search on Photo Station.  Because it's a media entry it can be places wherever media links are allowed.

The delivery of the albums is done in real time on the NAS and will present the current tagged content so, having created the link, I can change the content that's delivered by adding,  changing or deleting content on the NAS.  It works for me. If you have a NAS of another make, I'm sure they will have the equivalent capability.

You can't do this easily with cloud solutions because they lack the capability to tag photos and perform seeded searches based on those tags

Here's one very basic example.  Look for Photo Gallery, beneath Siblings

 

Paul

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raisondetre

Thanks so much Paul! Before replying I had to educate myself re NAS versus DAS and check out how I could apply the system to my somewhat basic computer practices. I think this is a much bigger bite than I can chew! I understand how it would safeguard my data and images and how I would be able to have my family access large files directly but the system is beyond my budget and - probably - abilities. Still, thank you so much for the idea. Made my head spin there with the possibilities for a minute. I currently store EVERYTHING on two WD 500 GB external hard drives - alternating backups. It has been a pain to update those periodically (i.e. buy new) - particularly for  transfer speed reasons ( I had an early WD Book with massive storage that actually became so outdated and slow I discarded it even though I had used a mere fraction of its capacity) but, so far, the hard drives are adequate - all my data and images together are under 300 GB. I keep the same file directory hierarchy on the drives as on the server so there is consistency with website structure.

Of course, those WD drives are simply for storage and not accessible for my users as the NAS would be. Certainly food for thought. As a server, SImply Hosting allows backups of the entire TNG website which are standard enough (currently) to load to a new server if SH goes belly up for some reason. To have my own backup 'server' - which is how I interpret the Synology NAS - would be ideal. If I had come at this before my 70's, I might have been tempted to make the plunge. 

Thanks again . . . learning something new every day . . . MSB

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raisondetre

I'm back for a minute . . . with a question for Paul. Good looking site by the way! I like the way you have arranged your pages. I have a lot of work to do. 

Question . . . I see - in your example - the image, retrieved/viewed via NAS, of  "1928....John Barrett on left". I then checked 'Browse all media' from the drop-down menu and that image is not on the list which, now I understand, is separate. So I am wondering . . . how did you decide which images or other media were stored on your host site (Uniquely Yours) or on your Synology NAS with Synology Photo Station? Was it simply a quantity of items choice? What personal criteria did you use?  I CAN see how this might work for me. Not sure I can afford it but it has my attention.

Also, when you chose your system, what capacity did you go with? Have you needed it all? Did you go for speed? I see the price differences and am curious. Thanks!

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Paul Barrett

Basically, I store images of people on the NAS drive, except for one profile picture that I have to store on the hosting site for it to show up in the individual's record and their charts.

Images of documents have to be stored on the hosting site for the same reason.

The other benefit of storing images on the NAS is that I can use as high a resolution as I like without causing TNG to have a problem AND it keeps my hosting costs way down because I have 150GB of pictures.

The cost of an entry level NAS is not that high these days.  How many images do you have?

I use my NAS for all sorts of reasons.  I run:

  • Photo Station
  • Music Library for my Sonos
  • Note Station (to share research notes with my sister before we publish them on our site)
  • To Do Lists
  • Synology Office (Spreadsheets and documents)
  • Network storage (nothing of value is stored locally)
  • WordPress
  • bliss (music library cover art and track management
  • Syncing PC's
  • Video Station

So I recently upgraded to a much more powerful 716+II

But I ran Photo Station reasonably well for a year on a 216j.  As always, if you can stretch to a little more, so much the better.  There are single disk models but don't touch those.  You want 2 x disks mirrored so if one disk fails you don't lose anything.

The synology NAS's are particularly good for novice users because their user interface is so simple to use.  It's basically a desktop display.  If you're familiar with a PV, a Synology NAS is pretty easy to run.

Synology have a NAS selector to help you choose

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raisondetre

Thanks much! I am going to look into this further . . . certainly appreciate all your feedback! MSB

Oh, how many images do I have? I just did a directory check on the main families image folders and properties came up with a - gulp - total of 80K+ photos. This includes photos from everyday life, milestone events and many, many trips. BUT many of those are duplicates - copies made for presentation folders, similar images from event attendees. Then there are many that I do not need to preserve further - past workplaces and career stuff, distant friends, household inventory etc. So that number could be reduced, I think, rather dramatically,to let's say 40K.  As I type it, that seems crazy. Then I think, for example tightly edited 100 photos from a wedding X , say, 30 weddings = 3000. Trips easily could be 100 x 100 = 10,000. Wow! This is some reality check. I already have 1000 plus pre-1940 images on the website. (FYI, I do reduce file size to 200 to 800KB max)

Lots to consider here. What do you think of these numbers? And these numbers being handled by NAS?

 

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Paul Barrett

The numbers have only one effect on a NAS, and that is the time taken to create the thumbnails and index the library.  In Synology's case, you can offload the creation of thumbnails to your PC by uploading the images using a tool they provide.

You won't need duplicates because if you want to include the same photo in multiple collections you just add multiple tags to one image.  There are tools you can use to de-deip images.

You won't need to downsize your images - that's one of the main benefits of using a NAS, because rendition happens there.

All that said I would tend to go for a higher powered NAS because you will inevitably find that at some stage you will have to reindex your images and that will take a long time on a budget model.  To give you a reference point, reindexing and regenerating the thumbnails on my 15K library on the 216j took a whopping 36 hours.  On teh 716+II, 15 minutes.

Oh, and buy the discs separately not in a bundle.  It will be cheaper.

We are are way off topic for this forum and may be boring the pants off some people.  If you want to PM me your email address we could continue this offline

 

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raisondetre

Yes, I agree we should close this exchange at this point. I will get my email to you. BTW, Dick Eastman just touched on some of this in his newsletter today. 

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Paul Barrett

I am not a subscriber so I couldn't see the full article but it does look as though he's covering some of this topic.  See you on email!

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carltonb

Paul, a quick question.

I have a Synology 4 bay NAS. I use it with my home security camera system to record the video from my cameras.

Currently I use only two of the drives for my security video. One of the drives stores all my data and the fourth is a hot swap backup for all my systems.

Before I wander in to this to much and not being very familiar with other Synology NAS workings. Do you think that this would work together.

Also did you need to get a DNS server so that this could be viewed over the internet.

I would also like to see a tutorial on how you set this up. I have over 100K of scanned pictures/documents.

Thanks for you time.

Carlton Brooks

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Paul Barrett

Carlton - please PM me your email address and we'll handle this offline

 

Paul

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MBaisdon

I am interested on how you put the link on the pages.  I want to do this as well.

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Paul Barrett

To put it on text it's a simple bit of HTML

<a href"the URL from the NAS">The text you want the link to appear on</a>

 

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MBaisdon

I figured that is what it was, didnt know if you automated the link on the page.  I have keyworded the photos with their TNG ID.  I was thinking maybe you had it where the link took that persons ID and inserted it into the link automatically.

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Paul Barrett

No, the link is from the NAS and uses the tags applied on the NAS images to select the ones needed from the NAS library.  The person's name is the key.  You'd get in a right muddle if you tried to use the Person ID as a tag on the image because they would effectively be a random label with no meaning so you'd have terrible trouble assigning the correct ID to the images. 

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MBaisdon

What determines if the link is there or not on a persons page?  Do you have to manually add it?

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Paul Barrett
5 minutes ago, MBaisdon said:

What determines if the link is there or not on a persons page?  Do you have to manually add it?

Could you expand on that, please?  I don't understand what you mean.

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MBaisdon

when you go to a persons page and they have photos on your NAS, there is a link to that persons photos...If a person doesn't have photos tagged to them is there still a link?  What determines the link and is the tagged info in the link dynamic?

I am using a 3rd party web image gallery, lychee, and can do a search from a link using tagged info.  What I'm wanting to do is add a dynamic link with keyword info either name or ID.  Maybe that'll help on what I'm asking.

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Paul Barrett

So, I add a media link using a standard gallery image and attach the NAS URL.  If there are no photos I don't add the media entry.  There's no dynamic linking in the sense of a variable substitution in teh URL that is determined by TNG.  I get the URL from the NAS for each person.  The dynamism is that the NAS URL is, in fact, a search string.  If I add or delete images for that person the search URL will return the new results

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MBaisdon

Thanks for the info.  I created a media link and it works great.

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