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DNA Genealogy

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Rush

I really lagging in this area (among others), but I was curious about DNA Genealogy.

Has anyone tried it, if so, how were the results? Was it worth the cost?

How do they get DNA from someone in 1230? Ok besided actually extracting it, but I can't imagine they are out digging up people to extract DNA for genealogy.

What's a good place / company to have it done?

Is there a DNA Genealogy primer out there?

So, do you just put your markers into various databases hoping for a match or maybe put in your email signature ;)

Can I get DNA information incorporated into TNG this weekend --- just kidding... seriously.

Just started to get a little curious about it and was interested in personal experiences.

Rush

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Russellgs

I really lagging in this area (among others), but I was curious about DNA Genealogy.

Has anyone tried it, if so, how were the results? Was it worth the cost?

How do they get DNA from someone in 1230? Ok besided actually extracting it, but I can't imagine they are out digging up people to extract DNA for genealogy.

What's a good place / company to have it done?

Is there a DNA Genealogy primer out there?

So, do you just put your markers into various databases hoping for a match or maybe put in your email signature ;)

Can I get DNA information incorporated into TNG this weekend --- just kidding... seriously.

Just started to get a little curious about it and was interested in personal experiences.

Rush

I use the services of FamilyTree DNA. Here is an excerpt from their newsletter:

Genetic Genealogy: How to Get Started

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you been thinking about taking a DNA test and don't know where to start or which test to select?

Are your parents or grandparents elderly and you want to make sure you get a DNA sample?

Is there only one male left in the direct male line of your family tree?

Have you encountered a brick wall in your genealogy research and don't know what to do next?

Getting started with DNA testing for genealogy is not any more difficult than the various records you have learned about as you have pursued your family history research. A science background is not necessary.

This getting started guide covers the different DNA tests available, and will help you select a test.

There are two types of DNA tests available for genealogy: Y DNA Tests and mtDNA Tests.

The Y DNA tests are only available for males, since this test involves testing a small portion of the Y chromosome, which is passed from father to son, typically unchanged. Males have both an X and a Y chromosome. They receive the X chromosome from their mother, and the Y chromosome from their father. Females have two X chromosomes, one each from their father and mother.

Testing Y DNA provides information about the direct male line which would be the father, his father, his father, and so forth, back in time. Scientists have discovered that a small portion of the Y chromosome is passed from father to son virtually unchanged. Therefore, if a father and son are tested, their results would usually match. If two male cousins are tested, who have the same grandfather, their results would match or be a close match.

By comparing the result from a Y DNA test of two males, you can determine if they are related and approximately when the common ancestor occurred.

The locations tested on the Y chromosome for the Y DNA test are called Markers. There are 4 versions of the Y DNA test available:

Y-DNA12 tests 12 Markers

Y-DNA25 tests 25 Markers (For Surname Projects Only)

Y-DNA37 tests 37 Markers

Y-DNA59 tests 59 Markers

The 25 Marker test includes the Markers that are tested in the 12 Marker test. The 37 Marker test includes the Markers that are tested in the 25 Marker test. The 59 Marker test includes the Markers tested in the 37 Marker test.

If a person starts with the 12 Marker test, they can later upgrade to either the 25 Marker test(for Surname Projects) or the 37 Marker test or the 59 Marker tests. The 25 Marker test can be upgraded to 37 Markers or 59 Markers, and the 37 Marker test can also be upgraded to 59 Markers.

Selecting the number of Markers to test is primarily a budget consideration. More Markers provide more information. More Markers will also provide more accuracy in the estimated time frame for the common ancestor. In addition, more Markers will eliminate matches that aren't relevant in a genealogical time frame.

The 12 Marker test is best at proving that two males do not have a common ancestor in a genealogical time frame. For all other situations, the 37 Marker or 59 Marker test is recommended. The additional information from the 37 Marker or 59 Marker test far exceeds the incremental cost.

When the budget is available, select the 37 Marker or 59 Marker test. In most cases, those who start with the 12 Marker test or 25 Marker test typically upgrade later. You can save on your cost of testing by selecting the 59 Marker test initially.

Y DNA testing has a wide range of applications because the Y chromosome typically follows surnames. In addition, the Y DNA test can resolve a broad spectrum of problems and provides information about the direct male line.

Y DNA testing is used in Surname Projects. Surname Projects involve testing one or more males from each identified line or family tree of a surname, to determine which lines are related, and therefore have a common ancestor. Surname Projects can also identify the number of origins for a surname. In addition, Surname Projects often provide clues for further family history research and locations for research, as well as save people research time with these clues.

Both males and females inherit mtDNA from their mothers. Testing mtDNA provides information about the direct female line of the person, which would be their mother, their mother's mother, and so forth.

mtDNA testing provides information about the origin of your direct female ancestral line. The result of the mtDNA test would tell you which of the "Daughters of Eve" was your ancestor.

There are situations where mtDNA testing can also be applied to your genealogy research. An example of utilizing mtDNA testing for genealogy would be where an ancestor had two wives, and multiple daughters, and you want to determine which daughters had which mother. In this case, you would need to find direct descent female descendents of the daughters and test them. Lets assume that Daughter 1 is documented with Mother A and Daughter 4 is documented with Mother B. You are uncertain of the mother for Daughters 2 and 3. You would find female descendents of the daughters, in the direct female line, and test 1 descendent of each of the 4 daughters. The descendents of Daughter 1 and Daughter 4 should have different results, and depending on which of these results the descendents of Daughter 2 and 3 match, tells you whom the mother was of Daughters 2 and 3.

The mtDNA test is available in 2 versions. These tests are called:

mtDNA

mtDNA Plus

The test called mtDNA provides a result for the region of mtDNA called HVR1. The test called mtDNA Plus tests two regions of mtDNA, HVR1 and HVR2. (HVR stands for Hyper Variable Region).

If you want to find mtDNA matches in a genealogical time frame, select the mtDNA Plus test.

Anyone with an understanding of family history research can utilize DNA testing. It isn't necessary to have a scientific background. The few scientific terms you will encounter will be explained.

It is easy to get started. Typically, you would want to start with a test of your direct male line and your direct female line. If you are female, you would need your father or brother or other close male relative to participate for the Y DNA test to represent your direct male line.

You can check at Family Tree DNA to see if there is a Surname Project established for your direct male line. You can perform a search by clicking on the link below:

http://www.familytreeDNA.com/surname.asp

If you find a Surname Project for your direct male line, order your DNA tests as a member of this Surname Project. The Group Administrator will provide you with assistance in interpreting your results. In addition, telephone and email support and consultation is available from Family Tree DNA.

If you don't find a Surname Project, to order a Y DNA and/or mtDNA test:

http://www.familytreeDNA.com/products.html

DNA testing is the most powerful tool to ever become available to genealogists. For those who are new to DNA testing for family history, it can seem overwhelming and technical. Genetic Genealogy is not any more complicated than learning about the various records available that may contain information about your ancestors.

The easiest way to learn is to take a DNA test.

From the Facts & Genes newsletter Vol 5, Issue 1 date Mar 27, 2006

(Copyright 2006, Family Tree DNA), and cite "Facts & Genes"

(http://www.familytreeDNA.com/facts_genes.asp) as the source.

Facts & Genes. Copyright © 2006 Family Tree DNA. All rights reserved

To read the entire newsletter see the attached file.

Facts___Genes_from_Family_Tree_DNA.htm

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sjwinslow

Rush,

We have had some very exciting results on our DNA project. Even with only a handful of participants in our Winslow Family Y-DNA Project we have been able to answer some questions that have stumped researchers for over 50 years. We didn't even have to dig up any of our ancestors :lol: Check out the FAQ in my DNA area and see if that will answer some of your questions. You can also check out the Forum on the site where many Conclusions, Results and current research are occurring.

Steve

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deboard

This is interesting, someday I expect this will be a major part of genealogy. Right now though, since we have some people who have tried it, I have a question (and a story first) as well:

My sister-in-law's mother was adopted under strange circumstances. The story goes that she was left on the doorstep of her adopted parents (not joking). She is getting up there in years, so this happened back in the late 1920s I believe. There was no adoption agency so there are not even sealed records of her birth. As she got older she really wanted to find out who her real parents were, and so her daughters (including my sister-in-law), began looking.

What they began to suspect is that her adopted parents were hiding an affair that the father had. They found records of her adopted parents paying for a young woman's prenatal care and delivery in Huntington, WV around the time the baby would have been born. This is far enough away from where they lived to keep it hidden for a long time, but not far enough I guess. This by itself was a huge find of course, but they still had no proof of anything. The adopted parents had other children, but they were older and this baby was the youngest by a long shot. So not only are her adopted parents dead, all her adopted siblings are dead.

They've pretty much hit a brick wall there. They'd like to give their mother this info as gift before she dies, but they are stuck.

My question is: Could DNA testing help with not much to test against? The male line seems a dead end, but is there anything that could help?

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sjwinslow

If the supposed real mother is still alive she could be tested or if she had any other children they could be tested as well. You need to look into the paternity DNA testing that can give you a more positive indication of relationship than what the genealogy Y-DNA or the mtDNA testing can provide.

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sjwinslow

They've pretty much hit a brick wall there. They'd like to give their mother this info as gift before she dies, but they are stuck.

My question is: Could DNA testing help with not much to test against? The male line seems a dead end, but is there anything that could help?

Here is something I just saw posted on the rootsweb DNA board;

Thomas Krahn of DNA-Fingerprint in Germany has had some success with using

DNA from envelopes. As I understand the process he cuts small pieces from the

stamps and/or envelope seal and tests for retrievable DNA. None of the

other major genetic genealogy companies offer such forensic services as far as I

know.

It's hard to believe they are extracting DNA from the envelops and stamps of old correspondence. There seems to be few limits in the new world of DAN testing.

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gvdm

Here is something I just saw posted on the rootsweb DNA board;

It's hard to believe they are extracting DNA from the envelops and stamps of old correspondence. There seems to be few limits in the new world of DAN testing.

Another question would be who licked the stamp or envelope......

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Rush

Thanks for the replies!

When I get some time this evening, I'll have to digest all that info!

Rush

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waltreams

Some individuals in my family were invited to participate in the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation.

http://smgf.org/

You can request a participation kit and add your "tree" to their database. There may be some hidden fees, but I haven't found them yet.

Does anyone have any experience with this group?

Walt

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sjwinslow

Some individuals in my family were invited to participate in the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation.

http://smgf.org/

You can request a participation kit and add your "tree" to their database. There may be some hidden fees, but I haven't found them yet.

Does anyone have any experience with this group?

Walt

Walt,

I sent my DNA sample and pedigree to SMGF about a year ago. There are no hidden fees. About the only cost you incur is the return postage for your test sample. One of the biggest disadvantage is that they will not tell you your results. However, once your results are posted in their on-line database you can indirectly obtain your marker values. The other disadvantage is the time it takes them to post your results. I sent my sample in over a year ago and it is still not available on-line. Some people say their results are posted within 6-9 months and some have waited much more than a year.

Given that the cost of the test is fairly low from the many testing labs, its really not worth the wait if you are seriously interested in obtaining DNA results.

In our case DNA results allowed us to break down a brick wall that had stumped family researchers for more than 5 decades. The cost of the test was very insignificant compared to the valuable information we received. You can read an article that was published in the December Mayflower Quarterly HERE showing what we were trying to accomplish. This month there will be another article published in the Chilton's Children News Letter on our results.

Steve

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dansley

My question is: Could DNA testing help with not much to test against? The male line seems a dead end, but is there anything that could help?

I'd look into mtDNA testing for this situation. It stands for mitochondrial DNA. This DNA is copied, usually without any change at all, from mother to child. Everyone inherit's their mother's mitochondrial DNA. So she could be tested now, and then a search launched for any other children of the 'suspected' birth mother. Their mitochondrial DNA should match hers. If those other children are all deceased, then go to the next generation, looking for any children born to daughters of the suspected mother. (This is easier to diagram than to write!)

I don't know how well standardized the mitochondrial tests are among the different labs, but you'd want to make sure that all the samples were 'sampled' at the same locations of the DNA.

Hope that's helpful.

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aop27

As most of my family are Welsh this wouldn't be much point for me. All that having the surname "Price" means is that a paternal ancestor had the first name Rhys sometime in the 16th, 17th or 18th century. As it was (& still is) one of the most common Welsh forenames the Prices around today decend from probably hundreds of unrelated men with the first name Rhys.

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605sffx

This is a very late reply, but I wanted to add my experience with DNA testing.

Our family was supposed to have descended from a certain reverend who, with his large family, landed on Cape Cod in 1634. I had the DNA of three male cousins tested, and the results showed conclusively that there was no relationship between our family and the reverend. This left us with a mystery of the origins of our ancestor, who lived in Maryland in the 18th century.

Then two men with a different last name notified me that their DNA matched ours exactly. Their ancestors also lived in the same area of Maryland. Since they know their ancestors while ours remain a mystery, I am convinced that our ancestor's father was born of their line. Either he was born out of wedlock, or he was for some reason adopted by our family and was given our family's surname.

So DNA testing disproved one relationship and discovered a different one.

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Smiths

Also a late reply, but wanted to tout TNG as great collaborative software that, when customized, works GREAT with DNA data. I wanted one big tree with many branches, so that we wouldn't have duplicated trees but also wanted tight integration with the custom DNA reports we have as part of the Smith Official DNA Project at FamilyTreeDNA. Take a look on this page at the *branch* section to see how we specifically integrated this in with some code changes. I do not do mods, but if anyone wants to write a mod about this, happy to talk with that person about all that was involved.

http://www.smithsworldwide.org/tng/getpers...&tree=tree1

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John Meyer

I did both myself & my wife early last year through Ancestry. The results were interesting.

I was able to match a branch of my maternal tree (the common ancestor was my GGGrandfather). I knew of the branch but had no information on them. It has now been filled in.

My wife has had two hits, one we knew of and the other we did not although we were somewhat familiar with the branch. The fun part of her DNA was that it showed a strong 1% North African. A mystery for a true Scandinavian Blonde! We are trying to figure out where that came from...those Vikings travelled far and wide!

So be prepared, you may get some surprises and interesting results.

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Bert

Neal Cobb and me started a Cobb DNA project. There are now about 350 Cobb's in it. We found there are about 9 unrelated Cobb lines in the US. This sure cut down on the research required when looking for ancestors. I also found I have living cousins in England whom I now keep in touch with. Really has been worth while.

Bert Cobb

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sammysea

I did myself through Ancestry. The results proved several lines that we suspected, but could not prove with certainty. It also connected me with many relatives that had other information that proved lines and made firm connections. For me it is worth the testing and will yield surprising results. I have read and researched the three biggest and most widely proclaimed and the majority like Ancestry for the testing procedures and information returned. I suggest you do your research and then take the plunge.

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Chris Lloyd

My wife and I recently did our DNA tests with FamiltytreeDNA - still waiting for the results. I have also contacted a direct male line relative of my wifes' and he has agreed to get his yDNA done so that will help for her :)

Have contacted 2 others in my line - 1 a male descendant of my maternal great grandfather to get that yDNA done and the other for gg grandfather on maternal line. So far no response.

Cheers

Chris

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DelG

An Alaskan genealogist's efforts helped to solve a 47-year old missing person mystery and connect to skeletal remains found in the Olympic National Forest (Washington State).

"On May 10, 2010, a woman in Whittier, Alaska contacted [authorities in Washington State] with information regarding a member of her husband's family who disappeared in 1968. She had been doing genealogy research and had seen the information on the Internet regarding the unidentified remains, and expressed hope that the mystery of what happened to her husband's relative might be resolved...Using information supplied by this woman...the cold case squad...obtained family DNA samples for reference..." Source: The Leader, Port Townsend, Washington, 03Feb2016

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jseaman

I need to present a problem to the group and hopefully get some direction in solving it. Here's the background:

In my Lupton family line we a have a branch that we are unable to tie in with the rest of the family. We are almost certainly related due to the name and being from the same rather isolated geographic area in coastal North Carolina. The break is not knowing the parents of a man born about 1858. We have a couple of living male descendants (great-grandsons) and we have several options down a female line. And we have our suspicions about what family groups may be related to them.  

What would be the best way to tackle this problem? Test males? Test females? Test both? How many samples from each group? What type of test would work best for this type of problem? And ... what company's services would work best for this problem?

Thanks for any help  you can provide! If you can't answer my questions a link to where I might find answers would be appreciated as well.

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stores

In short, Which test?

Males pass their Y-DNA markers on to their sons who pass those same markers on to their sons, provided no mutations occur. Females pass their mtDNA markers on to all their children but only the daughters can pass those markers on to the next generation. 

So in order to confirm if this gentleman is or is not related to your Lupton line, you should do a Male Y-DNA test on two male descendants of the 1858 Lupton male and idealy down through two different sons. Then if the two tests come back as perfect matches, you would know the markers for the 1858 Lupton male, since he is the common ancestor for the two individuals tested. 

Example... Testing two descendants of 1858 Lupton's son Samuel would only tell you Samuel's markers, which are possibly 1858 Lupton's markers, unless Samuel was adopted or his mother stepped out on 1858 Lupton one night or Samuel was from another marriage of 1858 Lupton's wife, which happened a lot back then. 

If the two testers of 1858 Lupton come back as close matches, say 65 or 66 of 67 markers, you would still have his markers, it is just that one line has had markers mutate, and those mutated markers are passed forward through that particular line. You would have to test a 3rd line to confirm which line mutated.

Example... In one of my lines we have four distinct sets of markers which are all related and descend from a common male back in the 1600's. Three of the lines have had mutations, making it easy to decipher which branch of that tree a future match might belong to.

How many markers? 

Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) currently offers 37, 67 and 111 Y-DNA marker tests. A 37 marker test will answer your question but since you are almost certain the line is related, why not get a 111 marker test. In the days of 12, 25, 37 and 67 markers, a 37 marker test was considered the least you should get by many.

I have bought many tests over the years, testing all four grandparents lines and a couple great grandparents lines and testing at least two descendants in each line. That said, ordering and paying for a test is the easy part. The hard part will be to find volunteers to take the test. Once found, I would suggest buying the most markers available, that way, you have the results for the future. While you can always go back and ask for a more advanced test in the future, should you want one, that might not be possible. In my case, sadly, two of my testers have already passed on so that is no longer an option for me.

What company's services?

There are a number of companies that do DNA testing and I remember seeing a chart online showing DNA companies and their respective strengths and weakness but I can not find it at the moment. FTDNA was considered best for persons wanting to test at a company with a large database with the greatest possibility of matching with other testers as I remember it and this is why I chose them.

Afraid I can't comment on the other companies as I have only used FTDNA.

Hope this helps.

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jseaman
23 hours ago, stores said:

In short, Which test?

How many markers? 

What company's services?

Hope this helps

Amazing response! Thanks so much.

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